Game of Thrones|Ned and Ashara=Jon|New and Improved Edition

Do you think that daenerys is Azor Ahai since it was prophetise that the Prince or princess now that we know it can be either will come from aerys lineage.

Completely on.board for this.

Great video! As always. I am sure Jon is the new Sword of the Morning. But does it not say, he has to be an actual Dayne? Or can he still be a Stark and the Dayne blood is enough?

This would make sense if the show didn't show aurther dying and Jon literally being born from lyanna.

Been without internet for a few days, imagine my joy (erection) when this hit the notifs!

so Ashara genes are weaker than Neds, but Rhaeger is stronger the Lyanna ???
the Danes have a strong line of light color hair and light color eyes as well as the Targaryens according to your theory ( young griff) Jon should have traces of his lineage from the Daynes ?
Robert Baratheon had a grandmother who was Targaryen yet all of her children and children's children had dark hair. I guess Jon Arrons statement 'the seed is strong' only applies to a pure Baratheon.
referring to a male child that you have taken in as an adoptive ( which is the basis of the R+L=J theory) is not uncommon for you to refer to them as your son I dont know how this supports your theory.
The Daynes honor was questioned after the war for one of there own being part of the abduction of a high lords daughter ( we know that this is not true).Ned had every right to keep Dawn as war prize. House Dayne was loyal to the crown during the war as well. So Ned returning Dawn to Starfall also a rep of Robert who most likely told them that no harm will come to there house would most likely be held in great respect for the hier to House Dayne.
the quiet wolf theory you used in this video, could be used as a metaphor against you, 'he is one of them but not one of them' meaning his a stark but not a stark.
I like your theories and will continue to be a sub , but this one im still not convinced on yet. Its just as flimsy as the R+L=J theory 🙂

I really love this theory and I hope it's still true… I get that this is a book theory, honest question though: why would the show go such a fundamentally different way than the books? I feel like this is a plot point that GRRM told D&D beforehand… What do you think?

The more I learn about this theory the more clever and sensical it feels. I hope this is the route GRRM goes. R+L=J seems to fan fictiony now and a bit predictable, which is not his style

Great video!!!

Alright, I'm convinced. I thought y'all were full of it at first, but I'm swayed. Sharing this with everyone. Even granny will know the truth.

Spread the news. Save the rebelion

Essentially you haven't answered the key question, why would Ned hid Jon's parentage, if it wasn't liable to get him killed? If Ashara is presumed dead and no one but her, Ned and Howland know there was a baby from the tower of joy, why would he hid Ashara being Jon's mother?

Jon being sword of the morning, made narrative sense to me, so I used to think this theory might be true.

Did the audio go weird for anyone else at the end?

Is that true about Jon and Dragons, doesn't he dream about and mention ice dragons a few times?

Isn't Ned too honourable to become a polygamist?

I would like to see you guys break down the pink letter.

This would make a much more interesting story.
N+A=J for life!
And it makes it less awkward for Jon to do the sexy mode with Dany.

You don’t have to prove this to us…it’s show viewers that have been lied to by the writers

You guys, if you recognize my user name, know how much I lover your theories. THis is great work revisiting your best theory.

You also touch on the theory I like least: the one with Dayne, Whent, and Hightower being Mance, Qoren, and Tormand. It never set well with me. You do realize that you don't just have to account for those three, but another six riding buddies of Ned who, other than Howland Reed, never did leave the Tower of Joy to return their families again? OK, I'll spot you one seeing as not wanting to return to Lady Dustin and going off to the free cities instead is a perfectly understandable sentiment, but you still owe us five then.

What throws a wrench in the Jon and Danny being twins is that GRRM says that they are nine months apart, Jon being older.

You should check out "Secrets of the Citadel's " theory that Danny is Ned and Ashara's daughter. Huuuuuuuuum?

You forgot to include GRRM's quote "the shadow knows".

It excites me to think about Sansa's 'Lady" arc if she finds out she is actually a bastard. Her whole story has been around being trueborn, and her dismay with bastardy. Given her direwolf died and she is starting to be more aware of what being perceived as a bastard is like it would be a great story telling.
You guys should do a video on it! x

I am on this N+A=J ship from the start (for the books). Because that way even if Jon and Dany coming together would be okay

Jon being a Stark (ie Direwolves) doesn't rule out Lyanna, of course. And of course George isn't going to spill the beans and give away that Jon isn't siblings with the other Stark kiddies. This isn't particularly a strong point. Also, Ashara Dayne could well still be a red herring as far as Jon is concerned. Even if Ned and her were into each other (literally and figurative), that doesn't make Jon hers after all. And I do think that Ned was into Ashara and vice versa, that's pretty clear. Okay, you do acknowledge this. Lets see…

Might be funny if it turns out Ned Dayne is actually Ned's kid. Why wouldn't he name his son that? I mean, Dornish are weird. It is a rather strange thing but, well, not necessarily impossible. Making some assumptions. Decent assumptions, but… still. For instance, the Daynes might have thought the man who went up against Arthur Dayne and won (kinda) was worthy of respect? Not smoking guns here, but not bad. They'd have been better off naming the kid Howland if so. Then again, how much do they really know?

Jon looking like Ned doesn't really prove anything as siblings share more genetics than any other pairs of relatives I think. So Lyanna having a child that looks like Ned would be expected. It could certainly be a bit of a red herring either way though. And of course Jon resembles Ned in his actions and morality, he was raised by the man and probably idolized him more than any other Stark sibling. Jon trying to be more like Ned makes sense, if only psychologically, because he probably felt the most cast aside and so to be the Starkiest he could be he would become the best living example of Starkiness. John and Ned both using baby swaps is not all that great evidence either, as part of it assumes your main argument is correct. You cannot then use it to try to prove that main argument. Though it does work internally as an assumption. Even so, arguably Varys claims to have done a baby swap, does that mean Jon is Varys' kid? Of course not. And again, Jon definitely does think like Ned, but that can be explained by more than him being his literal son, and so it makes sense that he might employ similar tricks with babies.

And really, I don't think it is in any way certain that Lyanna+Rhaegar would end up looking Valyrian. Though IF you are correct then this would be a good way to explain Lemore = Ashara and why she's where she is instead of with her own kid.

Hmm. The Wolf dreams and symbolism vs dragon symbolism is clever. It could also be due to who he is surrounded by and his environment though, so easily explained away if needed. Nonetheless, he is clearly being pointed in Starky directions. Again, it could be a red herring, but hmm.

Ned being reminded about Rhaegar all the time and how that would anger him if Jon was Rhaegar's is… I dunno, a kinda weak point. It relies on an assumption of people's character generally… and if anything, Jon would probably remind Ned more of Lyanna (as the two look similar, apparently) because Jon looks very Starky.

The point about why he doesn't just tell Jon his mother died and loved him is a better one I think. Not infallible, of course, but better. Ned could be reluctant to talk about it at all or reluctant to in any way encourage Jon. Etc.

I'm pretty sure that Dawn IS Lightbringer myself. Not 100%, but it seems to make too much sense. It certainly seems old enough. Though I don't want this to just end with a huge battle and the goodies just beating the baddies and we're back to standard fantasy tropes.

There are a lot of good points here, amongst some weaker ones, that certainly make the Ned+Ashara=Jon thing plausible and something I'd be kinda happy to see. Not convinced at the moment, however. Though I do wonder, what about Ashara in all of this? You have spent a lot of time on Ned and Jon's similarity to him, but would Ashara even tell Ned she had his child if she knew he was now married to Cattylin? She wasn't from some no name family that couldn't afford a cover up! Besides, as I said before, Dornish are a bit odd. Just a thought.

well, you still have to explain the lemon tree… cuz dany wasn't born in braavos…

For me, having an answer to "Ned never calls Jon his 'son' but only his 'blood'" was huge…I noticed that on the first read AND watch and it was exactly that which got me thinking about what IS up w Jon's mother…? Kudos for starting out with that

you guys are off about aegon but i still love these videos

I really love the romantic story you two puzzled out between Ned and Ashara and even if Jon still turns out to be Lyanna's kid, I really hope we get more from Ashara and Ned since I feel their relationship is too important to be overlooked.

They're also, like, my 5th favorite ship.

I agree with everything in this video except your last quote.

I thought R+L=J was proven in the show? Although I have to admit, imagine Aegon (Books) is R+L and Jon is N+A. That would be pretty freaky.