Thand and Eldrgrim Reply to Lindybeige’s or Lloyd’s comment about their recent video comparing Roland Warzecha’s Cast Blow sword technique and Thrand’s Over arm slide spear technique. He stated that the technique had many advantages but could easily be knocked from the grasp with a counter on Facebook. Thrand and Eldgrim also reply to Arthurian Historian’s video focusing on the same techniques entitled Don’t Focus on Power! (And other criticisms). So sit back grab an ale or mead and enjoy the test Thrand and Eldgrim have devised to see if these assumptions are true. Is power unnecessary in most cases? Can the weapon easily be knocked from the grasp? Is the sword or spear committed and hard to redirect? Are these completely stand alone techniques are have has the use Thrand and Roland suggest been misinterpreted by many skeptics? So be ready for these exciting extreme test with an exciting conclusion and reply to Lindybeige, Arthurian Historian, Matt Easton / scholagladiatoria and many skeptics.

This is Reply to
Don’t Focus on Power! (And other criticisms)

He mentioned this video as end of his video
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His video was reply to our video
Roland Warzecha’s Cast Blow Sword Technique Similar to Thrand’s Overarm Slide Spear Technique?

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42 COMMENTS

  1. Just a few points:

    1st – Thrand is an experienced fighter so he won't lose sword that way, but someone less experienced might lose weapon this way.

    2nd – Thrand knows his sword will be hit, he expects it. If you don't expect to be hit that way and opponent does it by surprise it is actually possible to lose a weapon.

    Just saying that it is possible especially for those who has no experience with swords.

  2. This makes me wonder how well a hoplite style phalanx would fare against the sword armed legion. Internet and video game "experts" seem to think that a spear is completely useless at close range with a shield, but this overhand grip seems to have some advantages over a sword.

  5. Great video, its got so much sense. I was sure overarm grip was used but there is so many videos that was trying to proof that is only artistic depiction and it wasnt used in history that I was starting to belive them :0 thx for video now I can sleep camlier.

  7. Really good video, guys! I was a bit scared for Eldrgrim when that sharp bronze head started sliding at him. Be careful! My only complaint would be that non-cast sword blow that you tested looked downright wimpy, even for something coming straight from the elbow without the wrist helping. Perhaps a quick retest is in order? Of course, stepping and body rotation would add even more power to both types of cut, but I think the main problem is that the cut that was performed was not a good one. Please let us know how you felt about the blow and whether you think it was a good representation. Thanks!

  9. I'm seeing a little bit of confirmation bias going on here- if you'll re-watch your throw at 6:30, and compare to the throw at 8:03, you'll see that in the 'bone breaking' 'cast blow', Thrand actually bounces up and comes down with more weight, using more body mechanics than he does in the 'solid grip' version. I'm even seeing more tensing in the shoulder in the second throw than in the first. Point being, I believe that you didn't put as much force into the initial solid grip throw, and that a properly thrown solid grip can give as much power as a cast blow.

    In terms of control, tight vs. loose… You can definitely have control with a loose grip, at least for cutting/slashing. Macework should be enough of an example of that. In the age of Plate, though, and for tip control, yeah, you need a tighter grip, I suppose.

  10. I think the disarming could go differently if someone who's not your opponent trying to disarm you on purpose hit the weapon in other stages of the blow. (very early on, or in the end) It could even happen by accident, from an unexpected angle. The problem I see with your tests here is that Eldrgrim is trying to hit your sword and only reacts to you throwing the blow, thus hitting (if at all) in the later stages of the blow.
    Also, as someone else mentioned, it might be slightly easier to disarm if he struck against the thum side as opposed to the finger and palm side.

  11. I would expect Lloyd to know this stuff, he used to do a lot of LARPing and reenactment. I mean, sure, it's funny fighting, or tag, but you're still using the same weapon shapes. Certainly I noticed after years of sparring and SCA like fighting that I didn't grip my sword at all tightly, that I used mainly my pinky, ring finger and thumb to control it, even developing something like these cast blows just by how right they felt to use.

  13. People seem to not have noticed that with the cast sword technique the two longest fingers (the middle and ring fingers) remain wrapped securely around the hilt, which is a weak grip compared to a white-knuckled hammer grip, but is by no means weak enough to easily completely disarm you.
    As far as the sliding overarm spear thrust is concerned you don't have to really let go of the spear for it to slide forwards. Your grip is not compromised.

  14. I really enjoyed this video, really great stuff. I think you have done really great work in defending not only the material of your channel, but historical combat at large. Recreating the history is something that requires a level of diligence that is daunting, and most time unrewarding – as we will never truly know. Though, you have provided a great product for all of us, and I really appreciate it.

    One interesting video I would like to see some day, is what inspires you guys. What got you into re-enactment? What got you guys into studying the historical use of swords and of swordsmanship in general? This is really interesting stuff, and I would really like to hear it from you guys.

    Other questions? Hmm. relatively uncertain. I would be interested on your thoughts in the evolution of blunt weapons through time. I am curious as to how blunt weapons functioned in a time when plate armor was not viable. Many cultures seemed to prefer their use, for a variety of reasons. There is a report that I've heard that one of the ancient Mesopotamian tribes preferred them until their neighbors developed (what I would assume to be metal) helmets. Clubs and blackjacks have likely always been economical weapons, but some societies show very dedicated blunt weapons as their chosen instruments – particularly before the era of plate-armor.

  16. Watching all of your videos is amazing for aiding my understanding, but the one thing that gets me and scares me with some of you vids is the trust each of you have for each other. I know I wouldn't even let my best friend with a lanyard swing a sharp sword in my direction. Keep on going guys your vids are awesome and so are your replies to videos.

  18. There was only one time I saw that it looked even close to coming out of your hand and it was immediately recovered while returning to a ready position. I am curious though, because there wasn't testing done with gloves on either. Would a glove used at that time make a big enough change?

  19. An absolutely solid piece of experimental archaeology!
    MOAR KUDOS!!
    As for me, the overhead spear grip started to make full sense to me after watching this video, in fact it makes a load of practical sense. Thanks!

  22. I really enjoyed this video especially the length and how comprehensive it was. To me this really helped solidify what you guys have been stating for a while now and easily ends all doubt of these techniques in my mind. Great work fellows.

    Also if you guys ever start selling t-shirts I better see one that says "Most Certainly" lol. Just like if Matt starts selling his own custom ones I gotta have one that says "CONTEXT" 😛

  23. I think the debate of cut vs. thrust in europe that extends back centuries hinges largely on the bludgeoning power of the cut in certain types of swords like this one.

    Europeans came to favour the thrust more, but that pattern of thinking could have changed at any point in time. One of the many 'what ifs'.

  25. Personally I don't like Lindybeige, it is like the theoretical physicist versus the applied physicist, where one just talks about the theory and the other actually proves the theory right or wrong through testing.  Making assumptions without adequate testing to back it up will just make you sound like a dumb ass in the end.  Great video, and I've actually started practicing the cast blow and it is really fun to use.

  27. One more short aside, something that I absolutely love about your work..

    This is the work of people who genuinely love the subject they're speaking about, they enjoy what they're doing and are honestly fond of discussing it with others and teaching viewers about their experiences. On top of that, you guys are dedicated to figuring out the truth of these techniques, and demonstrating them without any prejudice or strange pre-conceptions. You're willing to give any reasonable technique a go and if you think something's unlikely to work, it's only because your hands-on experience has lead you to that conclusion. This is both a huge step up from armchair-theorizing, and it's also the exact cure for such conjecture as well; simple, honest proof performed politely and like professionals!

    Inspiring! 😀

  28. Really awesome addition! You've done great justice to these techniques, and there's pretty solid evidence here with this video to support your conclusions.

    Once again, your approach is thorough and hard to fault. 'Losing your weapon' was something that people sometimes use to kind of attack the overarm usage of the spear with full extension, even without a gigging kind of throw. The moment I tried it out with a counter-weighted spear of proper length and weight, I was immediately skeptical that the spear could somehow get knocked out of your hand with any ease. In my experience, real spears of maximum length, especially with large or heavy sarouters, are simply too heavy to be jostled out of your hand like a chopstick. I've tried this out myself, to some degree. I had my brother use a shorter wooden staff, much like Eldgrim was doing here, to knock my 'dory' out of line as best he could, and I also didn't have any issues with losing the spear. If you ask me, it isn't even possible to do if the opponent is striking down near the blade. Because while the tip of the spear may swing quickly, the further you get to the back of the spear where you're gripping it, the slower and more relaxed the motion is. You could literally grab the spearhead and throw it with one hand as hard as you could, and the speed of that rotation down at the wrist is gonna be slow enough that it won't hurt the spearman, and he could adjust his grip or simply drop the spear. And this is a best-case scenario for the opponent, as someone striking down on the very edge of your spear at a 90* angle just as you thrust, with a two-handed weapon, is probably pretty unlikely.

    As we're shown here, at the fastest thrust, knocking the spearhead aside can't even guarantee that the spearhead doesn't hit it's target. This basically leads me to the conclusion that war spears wielded this way are exceptionally dangerous, and that the overarm style of fighting with the spear in general, is a very deadly one, functional both at range and up close. Reviewing your conclusions, there is every reason that a fighter might, even in single combat, choose this grip style if he's skilled with it.

    Great video!

    +wariscoming 'i like lindybeige but your starting to make lindybeige look like he doesn't know what he's talking about ha'.

    That's because, in some cases, he doesn't know so well. All he was saying here, though, was that it 'risks losing your weapon'. But, he has gone and said worse, at times. Things that I would say are outright.. foolish. He means well though, and he's fairly intelligent, and fun to watch. I like him, but he does have his faults.

  29. Hey Thrand, I got an interesting question for you. I've made a few new videos on the katana recently and I'm currently working on part 4 which talks about spring steel and differential hardened steel. Would you allow me to use some of the footage in this video to show the durability of spring steel? I'm asking because you've captures some GREAT shots of the stress levels of a spring steel sword in action. It would only be a few seconds of the footage where you are striking the sword with the pole with some still shots as well.

  31. I love seeing you guys do what you do best, awesome stuff! Eldrgrim's reaction to Thrand smashing that brick was great, similar to my response. It really shows how much force you can put behind a sword even with one hand. Oh and the deflection bending and tension your sword received from those strikes were full on, that is some fine steel there. Love the video guys.

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