Game of Thrones| Who Was Born at the Tower of Joy?

Other than Mance Rayder being Arthur Dayne, these theories are quite solid. Nice work.

I've guessed/thought before, that Jon will find DAWN in the Winterfell Crypts.

I'm still found of the notion that Aegon is a Blackfyre, if only for it making Varys' plot more compelling and explaining why the Golden Company side with him.

I know that was not Jon unlike the show. It was Deanerys who born in the tower.

Since bloodraven was in charge of the tower of joy flashback… Is it possible he made bran see what he wanted him to see and not just a history flashback? That could rectify that situation book vs show.

Awesome

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148897-the-order-of-the-greenhand-naj/

Aegon, could be Rhaegar's and Elia's son. Maybe Vary's saved the babe by switching him.

Very interesting theories. I've been more drawn to the theories concerning Jon being the son of Ned. You guys certainly have a well thought out scenario here on your channel and have persuaded me. I have a question regarding Dawn (the Sword). If Jon will actually wield it in the future, won't him getting Longclaw from Jeor Mormont have been meaningless? There seem to have been too much focus on Longclaw for that to happen. Also, if Mance is Arthur Dayne, would he not recognize Jon as his nephew in the tent when Jon goes beyond the wall? Would there really be a need for such harsh questionings that he put him through? Secondly, would Ned not know about it, he spake of Mance as a problem in the books that "he must take care of sooner or later" (paraphrasing).

This sounds much more believable than the TV series. Thank you.

I dont find anyting to oppose except for the last tidbit where Mance Rayder is Arthur Dayne. Why would king's blood be valariyan blood? There is absolutely no evidence for it. If it was the case, Mellesandre would just bring a shipful of Lyseni, whould she not? In asoiac, it is shown many times that magic is impulsive, instictive, emotional its about conviction, belief. GRRM says that he didnt want magic to be "alternative science" as in "you put this and add that and you get this result" but he want it to be instictive, primal. So to me it makes more sense that all the people believing and following someone gives the power to that person and somehow to their descendant in the fantasy world of ice and fire.

You two help work fly by, Thanks.
Also, great theories. Mind blown.

See now this actually gives me a reason to believe A+N=J. The reason I've always believed R+L=J is because I haven't been given a logical reason for Ned to keep Jon's parentage a secret except for Jon being a Targaryen in order to protect him from Robert. After all even if Jon was his kid via Ashara why keep that a secret? She's thought to be dead and Jon wouldn't have a claim to Winterfell because he'd be a bastard. However if Jon is potentially the sword of the morning? A.k.a. a non Dayne holding Dawn? Now that gives reason to keep it a secret. Of course another reason is that Jon might actually be legitimate and heir to Winterfell and that Ned was the one that potentially got an annulment instead of Rhaegar. You are right that Jon being the holder of Dawn and Dawn being the actual lightbringer makes sense thematically and storytelling wise.

Also the new season of AGOT actually lends a bit more credence to this theory as the show has combined story lines before from different characters (mainly Aegon and Cersei) so maybe they're combining Aegon being Lyanna and Rheagars son and Jon together maybe? Hmmmm….

There are an awful lot of Tyrells helping smuggle people around the world. Perhaps an homage to James Tyrell, the smuggler of the Princes in the Tower.

Best GOT channel by far…really gets me thinking about the way George RR Martin pieces together the various puzzles. He is like the Kubrick of writers….

Great series. You've managed to convinced me Mance is Ser Arthur Dayne. I've always been 100% on board Jon Snow is a Dayne. It's just so fitting Jon starts off as "the sword in the darkness" to eventually be reborn as "sword of the morning".

However, I do not buy Faegon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Tyrion's chapters in ADWD implies Aegon is really the son of Illyrio and his wife Serra. I can't get pass Illyrio's quote ''black or red, a dragon is still a dragon". I also can't get pass Dany's vision of a mummer's dragon in the House of the Undying and a voice telling her "mother of dragons, slayer of lies." Even Quaithe called Aegon a 'mummer's dragon'. She called everyone else out for what they were– lion, griffon, kraken, dark flame, etc.– so why did Quaithe say Aegon is a mummer's dragon? He would not be called that if he was truly the last dragon's son.

Daenerys mentions Rhaegar did not have a Visenya. This strikes me as a clue the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna was a girl. Rhaegar was expecting a girl. He looked directly at Daenerys in her vision and said "the dragon has three heads, there must be one more."
Daenerys even dreamed she was Rhaegar. Daenerys and Lyanna even share the same bond with horses.

As for Jon Con……he's the epitome of a blind love-struck fool and a broken man. He has more to live for in believing a part of Rhaegar still lives on in Faegon. Illyrio and Varys know this and are taking advantage of it. There's no question Jon Con's love for Rhaegar is genuine but that is what makes it one sided and unreliable. Jon Con perceived Rhaegar calling his lands beautiful as a special moment when it was just Rhaegar literally saying the scenery was nice. Aegon said the same thing because Jon's lands are beautiful. Period. It's was just a coincidence that happened to trigger Jon's memory of Rhaegar. It does not mean Faegon is Rhaegar's son. It's ironic you brought up Brienne because she did the same with Renly. Both characters cling to the idea of their loves but in actuality their concepts are misguided. Brienne did not know Renly preferred men. Rhaegar was secretive and did not trust Jon Con as much as he did Ser Arthur Dayne. Yes, Aegon and Rhaegar have the same features but so does most of the population of Lys. It's been brought up multiple times throughout the course of the books that a lot of random women look just like Daenerys so why wouldn't it be the same for Rhaegar and random men? Rhaegar was known to be solemn but Jon has not mentioned this trait in Aegon. Rhaegar's actions were influenced by prophecy but Jon has not once mentioned Rhaegar thought Aegon is 'the prince that was promised' like he told Elia in Dany's vision.

The Shy Maid being a connection between Ned and Ashara is a bit of a stretch since Ned is known as the quiet wolf, not shy. This does make all the difference considering how George R. R. Martin likes to play with his words. Septa Lemore is not Ashara because Tyrion did not comment on her eyes. Ashara's eyes are her best feature as we are repeatedly told. I'm more inclined to believe Septa Lemore, Yandry and Ysilla are all agents of Doran Martell.

….sorry for the long comment. 😛 I gave the video a like.

Nobody was born at the Tower of Joy. Lyanna died a warrior. She died training to fight in the Real War.

So the tv show is combining  Young Griff (Aegon) and Jon Snow on the show?

You over-interpret the books, guys. Martin loves complex writing, but he still wants to have characters with arches. The theories you present are interesting but mostly don't fit the entire point of Jon's arch. The "Ned's bastards" theory also relies in the fact that GRRM has no grasp of genetics and just makes a child look like one of their parents (see the Freys).
I mean, I appreciate your effort, but you're presenting glorified tinfoil in my opinion.

R+L=J is just D&D's creation for the show. If the real silver haired Aegon R+L = A was indeed added into the story line, then there's no way they could wrap up the show by season 8. At least 10 full seasons at 12 episodes each would be required to wrap it up.

Just had a thought if the Daynes have Valyrian blood in their veins then it can still make sense why the Dragons like Jon in the Game of Thrones show. After all even if Bran can see details of the future or of people. He makes his own conclusions. He wouldn't believe that Ned would have slept with anyone else but his mother so he instantly would think that Jon is the baby.

Also correct me if I am wrong but there were other houses of Valyria who produced Dragon Riders so it's possible that Jon with Ashara Dayne as his mother could be a dragon rider as well as a warg.

I actually came to your channel after a vid from Ideas of Ice and Fire. While I like the dedication you put into your theories and videos I don't think they all add up. You don't have to refer me to any of your other videos as I have watched them all and read comments on them. You are banking all of this on GRRM actually being correct on the dates he provided. He himself didn't put much thought into them and when repeatedly asked by us the fans he's tried but some still don't add up. Clearly time is not his biggest strength as it took him a very long time to make it from book 1 to book 5. We all still waiting for WoW and nowhere near getting ADoS. Plus you also want us to believe in all this baby swapping which although possible it's highly unlikely that all of this would work out like you thought. Just because you think that Ned wouldn't have had time to get to the ToJ doesn't mean he didn't get there. He might have skipped over some things in order to get there. Plus we are taking about his only sister I don't think he would continue to be on his quest of doing other things when his only sister who's been mia is at the ToJ. Plus how are you so sure that Septa Lemore isn't a Targaryen bastard?

Well we know now. It was Jon.

I thought he was king Robert's son.

It doesn't make sense, if John was Rhaagar Targaryen's son why wasn't Melisandre chasing him around, trying to put him burning pyre??? BIG TIME KING'S BLOOD

I am wondering how you reconcile this theory with the dreams Ned has in GoT about the perception of his failed duty when Varys sends the ravens to kill Daenerys? This heavily alludes to a R+L=D theory imo.

Enjoyed the info.

Out of all the youtube channel, y'all
are my favorite. And honestly the only channel that isn't on the R+L=J mainstream media train.

I really hope that you are wrong about mance! I just don't like the idea of everyone has to be someone else, why can't people be dead, and not disguised as person x! Ohh, and I don't believe in the whole profecy thing, were people are destined to defeat the white walkers, it just doesn't seem like grrm! I think that there will be an non all-out destruction, of the white walkers or humans, ending!

If R + L = A, then would that mean Aegon is a Bastard?

Sad that I just now found you Green see-er…

I'm not an expert what are the dreams that people give dramatic readings from it's a dream with ned st the tower hearing Leanna where ned sees grey wraiths and he encounters Arthur dayne .what is that about .redteam review just did a video giving some dramatic reading

Normally I'm not much for commenting on videos in here, but I will make an exception because your theories are very well thought out and intriguing – not just a repetition of other videos like so many other GoT theories – and I really enjoy reliving the story through your meticulous and detailed analysis.
I'm curious to know why in the previous video you referred to Ned as the "quiet wolf" when comparing him to Jon (and Ghost), but in this video, you change it to "shy wolf" in reference to The Shy Maid?

Take care and keep up the good work!

House Dayne history go's back to the first men , they called themselves " first men kings of the torenntine" ok some do have valerian looks but I'm confused as to there so called valerian blood , where does it come from ?