[Game of Thrones] Bran Is Not the Night King | GoT Season 7 & Season 8 Theory

If you're thinking that Bran needs a story or a plot twist check out this video about his purpose from last year. He's powerful and very important, but time travel doesn't need to be added to his story – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y22-h3LdGKA

Brynden rivers was the first night king

You didn't disprove anything.. You just don't like the theory lol. The Bran/Night King theory has picked up so much traction because, true or not, it's pretty full proof.

Hillary is the night king!!

Heres my theory: its been said that brandon of the bloody blade was bran the builder's father and its also been said that the night king was a stark. Brandon of the bloody blade is famous for being a legendary warrior and for butchering the children of the forest. Sounds like a perfect candidate for the children to turn into their weapon against men. Curren/ bran also happens to resemble bran the buider in many ways. So, my theory is that brandon of the bloody blade is the night king and that current bran is a reincarnation of bran the builder which would technically make the night king his father.

I agree with this. The bran being night king is dumb. The people getting butt hurt about the debunking obviously
haven't read the books.

Basically, If there could be Two Brans, Bran as he is in the show, and Bran as the NightKing, then that means a Split in the timeline, two separate timelines.
Yet, the theory is based on the premise that bran can't change anything, and it's just one ETERNAL LOOP.
So if time is a Loop, there cannot be Bran as he is born into the world, to be Bran, as Bran is already existed in the world as the NightKing…
Thus Without Bran being born, the Theory cannot work, cause, there is no Bran in the first place.
And, if there can be Two Brans at the same time, than Bran can alter and effect the past, even his own, thus, there is no Eternal Loop…
Thus, the Theory cannot work, because Bran and the NightKing existing separately at the same time, means they cannot be the same Being…

Ones a cripple and the other one isn't..simple really lol cripples are cripples, even when they become zombies lol

Finally…a video on the subject that contains COMMON FUCKING SENSE. thank you

sup

I will give you credit.  First we are talking theory and that is what you created here, a talk about theory.  I feel you missed or are not aware of a few things that truly comprise the theory, because at first; I was not a fan of it.  Second, Bran is a time traveler, but CANNOT change the past.  The Ink is Dry!!  But, he must fulfill his role in time.  Third, was he Bran the builder or just named after him?  Second, the Night King seemed to have a special hatred for the First three-eyed Raven.  Also, the three-eye Raven was always shown to be holding back from Bran, instead just very insistent against his questions.  Did he know the truth of what Bran truly has done?

When he goes back and changes something it could just be as it was supposed to be. So he's not really changing anything.

Disagree with this because the hodor time travel is a paradox, meaning the reason bran can change hodor in the future is because it already happened in the past. The whole paradox. Time travel on the way they did this was really good. Because its not like he is jumping around through time like crazy, though certin dangers is what created the paradox in the first place. Just my opinion.

how do you think that the children of the forest had the dragonstone in the first place?

Gotta say, dont think you're doing the theory justice or disproving it. You're assuming the whole story isnt a fixed loop. He might not be able to change the timeline, but that doesnt mean that the fixed timeline had not already included his attempts to do so. And there is evidence in the book and show that he can influence the past. I agree about the problems with time travel in narratives, but this doesnt mean that stories dont go with it anyway.
Furthermore, that Bran cannot skin change in the past does seem evidenced by the Hodor event. His eyes go white in the past, that means Bran influenced him in the past, then the implications are young Hodor saw or was connected to his future death, which is what caused him to have a fit. Im not sure how you can use that scene to refute his capacity to influence the past – at best it opens the possibility. Plus the original 3 eyed raven tells Bran that if he spends too long in the past, or 'where you don't belong', he wont come back, potentially implying he can perhaps take some form in the past and reside in it. After all he can both warg and time travel, and just because we havent clearly seen it (although see Hodor), doesnt mean he cant do it.
I think this is what is meant by Bran being the NK, not that he is just controlling him now, but that at some point Bran will lose himself and get trapped in the past, in the NK. The NK also does exist in the book but as different myths rather than as a WW – one in which a stark marries a white walker or something like that. That the show is calling the leading WW that is suggestive that Martin wanted to show bits of truth in the myths, and this was his plan.
In addition, one possibility is that Bran in travelling too much ceases to be Bran as we knew him. Im pretty sure the 3 ER implies that you could lose yourself, i.e. your personality and we're already seeing Bran become distant from everyone. Or perhaps as another theory argues, it's to do with the balance, and actually the lord of light is the one who needs to be stopped. I think there is plausibility in all these things (this is a fantasy show after all), and you dont really do enough to show it as seriously flawed.
Also there is the evidence from Old Nan when she's reading Bran a story in the book, I think something a long the lines she heard a version where the NK was a Stark called Bran, and also where she gets confused between this Bran, and her son and uncle Bran, potentially suggesting Bran is all of them and has been time travelling and shaping things as Martin likes dropping hints, and does not seem to put these sorts of things in for no reason.

Im kinda in the middle. The fact that the story line of Bran's powers has been developing for so long is a definite indication that Bran will play a huge role in the plot. On the other hand Bran actually being the Night King would be too much. Then again considering how "Hollywood" Season 7 was I wouldn't write off anything..

Do you know what I mean?

Bran, Bran Everywhere ! Warging into gagged guy is hilarious. Why Bran didn't warg into First Kings to stop killing Children of The Forrest? Why he didn't whisper "don't kill" "don't cut weirwoods" He had power to obtain undeniable proof that he was messenger from the future , he had power to make himself prophet in the eyes of Children of the Forest and First Men. Instead he warged into gagged guy lel

I think you really misunderstood the theory.

Actually in the book it does mention something regarding time travel, but not the way you are trying to debunk it. There is a great video on youtube where someone explains it well. In short, George Martin talks about the past and that the ink has dried. That whatever is meant to happen will happen regardless. So when Bran goes back in time and tries to correct the future, the same result always happens just in a different way. one example is the Mad King, some say the burn them all voice the king was hearing was Bran himself. He was trying to communicate that to the mad king in reference to the White Walker. But in turn lead to more destruction and the threat of white walkers still remained. In short, Destiny is written, small changes and causes can occur, but the outcome will always remain. I hope that makes sense, wrote this is a rush 🙂

This Video is so Bad

Baby

BULLSHIT!

the theory about Bran being the Night King does not require brand to alter the storyline we've already seen. What it does is say that Bran has already altered these things in the future and the past and that's what resulted in the storyline we see. the man who was turned into the night King obviously would not have wanted to March against his fellow human beings either but since he became the night King he obviously is. So there is some thought that the fellow who was turned into the night King has no control over or at least only partially can control what he does.

At this point I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up being the night king.

"Chaos is a ladda"

If you compare the theory to hordor, they're both fixed loops. Just on a larger scale

This so-called theory, and others like it are the end results of other people's head canon and imagination running wild.
Hell, there are still people thinking R+L does NOT equal J in order to insert far reaching theories that Jon is somehow Ned's bastard for real.

I love GOT but theres sum geeks .its worse than star trek..in fact you shud all have a fight ill spread q rumour that game fans have been slagging off trekkies so you can meet up like hooligans at comic con..now that id watch and throw in star wars fans all talking like fucking yoda in fact thats got to be a good idea.like a big geek fight except most probably dont like violence so there wud be a lot of shouting and bitch fighting…id pay to watch that…just enjoy the show .you dont have to fucking know just leave it alone but alas i know you wont

The showbwas perfect howbit was, please don't mess it up by including time travel into it…

My theory is he went to the past to stop the children from creating the night king but the children could see bran similar to how the nk could and instead of turning man into the nk they turned him…like u said he cant change the past so a man was coming and would be turned but he mistakenly took his place..the children wouldnt listen out of fear of being killed and the magic given to.him turned him into the Nk…thats y his mark linked them…they are the same person just difderent reincarnations of bran!

He can change the past it just doesn't change the future thats like if i go to a lake and throw a pebble in it it will ripple..it doesnt change the lake but it does scare the fish…the lake will go.back to its calm manner but the fish have moved and are no.longer in the same spot but theyre still in the same lake

I think it's exactly what we don't think.

My biggest thing against the Night King and Bran being the same is…. If Bran was the Night King, why would he have his white walkers trying to kill Jon…? Why would he kill one of the dragons and try to kill a 2nd dragon of one of Jon's nearest and dearest ally and friend? I don't understand. I don't think Bran would do ANYTHING harmful to Jon or anyone Jon is aligned with…

I do think that the "Bran is the Night King" theory is a load of rubbish however I do disagree that Bran cannot change the future or the present as he seems already to have done this with Hodor.
Hodor is the way he is because of Bran's actions in the cave.

I am certain I've heard it said that some of the main plot points outlined in GRRM's two outstanding ASOIAF books have been discussed with D&D, so that they can be incorporated into the show's narrative.
One of those reportedly was the Hodor scene. I suspect at least four more were the Battle of the B**tards, Cersei blowing up the Sept, the Ice dragon and R+L=J.

Ergo, the scene where Ned hears the rustling in the trees could be a nod to Bran having the ability to see what happened there, and Ned essentially sensing his presence.

So, on this account, I have to disagree with the video.

Nevertheless, I still love and enjoy watching your videos. Keep em' coming during the long night! 😉

Nothing debunked here.

I'm conflicted by this theory…it fascinates me that Bran could be the Night King and if he were, what are his reasons for doing what he is doing. But on the other hand if he were, why would he try kill himself? After touching the Night King, the Night King went to the 3 Eyed Raven cave to kill them. Only Hodor holding the door (with the greenseeing/timetravelling/warging going on) kept the walkers from killing Bran. So, therefore I doubt Bran was the dude having dragonglass inserted into his chest. The only way this theory works is if, somehow, Bran manages to warg into the Night King post this event…which… would explain why his features have changed maybe? Has anyone considered maybe the Night King and Bran switched bodies/consciousnesses when they touched? In some ways this makes more sense. Whatever it is, the biggest thing for me is the Night Kings purpose for his actions. Is he evil and just wants to kill everyone and ultimately rule everything and everyone? Seems too simplistic and boring. Or is he actually making his way south to fight the armies of the Lannisters, Euron Greyjoy and the overseas threat (Cerseis plan revealed to Jamie) knowing they would be too powerful for even Danaerys and Jon combined?
Some things that strike me about the Night King and his army…
1. Why, when Bran was greenseeing at their location, were they motionless, standing there waiting? It's as if the Night King knew Bran was coming and was waiting. What other scenes show the walkers doing nothing? They always seem to be on the move.
2. Again, they seemed to be waiting for the band of men to show up to that particular location…so that Dany would come with the dragons…the whole thing seemed staged. Why didn't they throw spears at the men on the island? They had a considerable amount of time to. The Night King seemed to know the drgons would come and could get one…to break the wall with.
3. Why has his appearance changed?
Looking forward to season 8, can't come soon enough.

Hey, "the ink is dry", we know this. I only watched 5 minutes of your video – sorry the slowness of the way your present your thoughts is difficult for me and likely others – I stopped at 5:18, but I have thought and seen this all before. Let us imagine that after that "obsidian" or whatever is inserted in the chest by the children of the forest, the creature that results is Bran or XYZ – what do we know of it's internal and external cababilities? Bran could have warged into and in some way "be" the Night King. But WHAT do we know of that creatures internal conciousness? Nothing! Is there even a Bran in there? Or what is XYZ? And we are told that nothing will affect the past, many times. So we are faced with a Night King who may have a very elaborate conciousness or NOT. He could be evil personified, or a sophisticated creature who is not bent on killing all living beings OR maybe so. and if he is intent on killing all living, and resurrecting them he may not think that is evil. Uusally monsters DO NOT think they are evil.

My thoughts are that Bran will continue to help in the present by reporting what we can't see, and there must be secrets that only he can convey to help sway the battle.

Time travel should not be used – it is too cheap for this awesome series.

first off didn't they show bran in a vision in season 5 or 6 who got turned into the knight king?

I think Bran goes back in time and becomes the old man in the tree version of the Three Eyed Raven, so the TER is always Bran. No evidence for this just a thought.

BRAN the WALKING SPOILER that why he dont show to much or he would ruim the end of the show

The arguments in this video were weak, also according to the books you can permanently warg into others, he might still do it but at some point in the future which will explain why he is "present" in the present

I read an article about "Bran is the Night King" theory people overthinking about the Night King. Couldn't he just simply be a scary force of nature that's gonna FORCE everyone in Westeros to unite against a common enemy despite all their differences and petty squabbles? That makes a lot more sense than a convoluted theory that Bran could be the Night King.

I completely admit that anything is possible and that I'm excited for whatever ending may be setup.

As of right now, I'm actually really shocked that you find Bran becoming the night king unlikely.

Something you said in this take really confused me. Why wasn't his eyes rolled back as he's worging the Nightking in the past? Well that's because he has NOT worged him yet. He's still in his timeline as bran. Eventually, when the Nightking were to finally reach a certain level of victory, as a last resort Bran would go back and try to worg him and talk to the children. In doing so, THAT will be when his present continues through the eyes of the Nightking. Maybe he goes brain dead right then and there? Maybe the reason he's doing everything he's doing is because he needs to continue until he sees himself go into this state, and at that time the Nightking will worg himself and go back into Bran's body and that'll be his end? Who knows, that's post-reveal. The point is, I think this is the most likely outcome we can predict right now.

Also, I think it's an AWESOME outcome! The time travel paradox, it's only a paradox if George R. Martin and/or the tv writers CHOOSE it to be. They're the writers, they can decide how time travel works and what its consequences are. So just because we've all had this debate from movies to tv shows to books for decades now, let's not forget that this is fiction and that if he decides there's some additional rule or he decides to get rid of a rule we always apply to time travel, that's his decision.

Personally, I think that the man who was changed into the Nightking could be many characters from various prophecies all rolled into one… including bran stark. Maybe the reason he exists is because as much death and destruction that the Nightking causes, maybe it's a lot less than Cercei originally caused and he's there to save the world. You never know.

I like your reasoning. Can you tackle this one: Was it bad writing or by design that the Night's King targeted a farther-away flying Viserion with his spear rather than closer, sitting ducks like Drogin, Daenerys, and Jon? My instsnt reaction to that scene was that he needed a dragon but wanted Daenerys and/or Jon alive! And, if THAT'S the case, would that have something to do with reestablishing a pact?

One of my biggest issues with this theory is something I've yet to hear anyone point out … If Bran can warg into people in the past, then why not warg into the Mad King? As the theory goes, he would've attempted the Mad King after what happened to Hodor, so he would've been stronger by then. Why whisper when you can warg? That to me is the biggest issue. Now as for him time traveling and actually being Bran the Builder, i could be swayed there. Don't get me wrong, I love the theory, but I just can't see it. Perhaps if there were more evidence in future books, then we can re-visit this, but for now i'll pass on the theory. Thanks for vid! Be well everyone.

Like you would know whether he is the night king or not… You will need to wait like everybody else to find out

Thank you!

Honestly why would anybody change into a man that's tied up or is going to be tied up to be turned into the night king? Bran's no idiot, and I hope writing would never be this lazy.

Also time travel is super complex if you wanna do it right. Setting the rules and parameters for time travel in the GoT universe in a way that suits this theory would be a task. Literally all of season 8 would be explaining how the time travel worked and exactly how bran altered the past to influence the present. Super weak way to end the show

Some good commentary, and I'll admit the theory is tinfoily, especially in the larger form where Bran becomes all of the Brans from history, is whispering in the Mad King's ear etc. But I think you're making it more complicated than it actually needs to be. The problems you point out with unlimited time travel, changing the past etc. are all very valid. And yes we've been told that he can't change the past. But that's already a very solid stereotype within time travel stories. A character goes into the past trying to change something, and then finds out that their action in the past was what was responsible for the present. History can be fixed because the actions Bran may or may not have taken in the past HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED.

Present timeline Bran has not yet tried to warg into the Night King in the past, so of course he's walking around normally. If he does try it, and does get stuck in the body of the night king in the past, then I would expect his body in the present would become a hollow shell. If the theory is true, then right now the mind of "time traveling" bran (in the night king) is coexisting with original Bran. Just like in any time travel movie, say Back to the Future, when Marty is seeing a second version of himself. I don't see how this pretty standard approach to time travel would throw the rest of the narrative into disarray any more than learning that the actions that caused Hodor to become "Hodor" occured in young Hodor's future. Like you say, it's a closed loop. If they're consistent, I expect that Bran and the night king could form a similar loop. The physical similarities are beside the point, since I don't think anyone is arguing that the Night King is physically in Bran's body.

What I find the most appealing about this theory is the big-picture thematic and motivational weight it adds to the story. In my opinion the weakest aspect to the Night King as a character and a villain is that we don't really know what he wants or why. If it's ultimately revealed that Bran is the night king there's a powerful underlying motivation to the character. The greensight is clearly weighing on Bran. He cannot see the future, but he sees the history of the world, the endless cycles of monarchs, cruelty, and suffering. This has already given him a decidedly nihilistic outlook. He seems disconnected from humanity to an extent.

So let's think about it for a second. If Bran did try to warg into the night king in the past, and became stuck in his body, he would have been doomed to carry out the will of the children of the forest, at least at first. Bran likely would have resisted killing the first men, but he may have been compelled by the children for a time. They themselves say that eventually they lost control of him. Bran would also have knowledge of the future, to a point, due to his memories as current timeline Bran. (This would explain how the night king seems to know what's going on, and how he predicted and was prepared for Dany's dragons during the lake battle.) So Bran/Night King is just chilling north of the wall for thousands of years, aware of the future, and probably hoping he could change it, at least at first. But as he continues to see the misery and death of generations through his greensight, he gets even more cynical. He sees the great wheel turning, and wants to break it, just like Dany. But his long exile north of the wall has eaten away at his humanity, and finally he becomes convicted that there will never be a ruler who will be truly just. That humanity is too flawed, and will never rise above it's base instincts. The only solution to break the wheel and end humanity's suffering? Destroy everything. To me, this seems like perhaps the most coherent and character-rooted motivation that the Night King could possibly have. And it wouldn't take a huge amount of storytelling to get there. Bran is already setting it up.

Then the final battle is a conflict between hope and despair, between an optimistic view of humanity, and a pessimistic one. Both, in a way, want the same thing–to cleanse the world of suffering. But they have very different ways to reach that goal. It would also pit Jon against Bran, and Dany against her undead dragon-child. Family conflict at it's finest. Plus, if Bran/Night King is the big bad, we have potential for some crazy symmetry at the end with Jaime/Bran. Now they've switched sides, and perhaps one or the other will meet their end thanks to a fall?

I kind of doubt that the Double Ds will go this route, but it does seem very satisfying to me, and in keeping with the characters and warg/time travel(ish) mechanics that have already been introduced.