Game of Thrones|Mysteries, Myths, and Motives|Rhaegar and Lyanna’s Greatest Deception

She is beautiful

so what i see jon didnt know everthing. cuz jon wildling lover told the story , he should have know that his mother was a maiden that got kidnap ?🤔🤔

When Sam is practicing archery at Crasters he mentions one of Ulmer of the kingswood boasting of putting an arrow through the hand of the white bull of the kingsguard and stealing a kiss from a dornish princess, do you think this might be why Quorin has half a hand and the princess may be Ashara?

Love all of your videos, my only issue with this one is the blue roses. If they are only grown in Winterfell why would Rhaegar have a bunch of them to give to Lyanna at the tourney at Harrenhal. This would mean that they didn't need to be at Winterfell for her to die surrounded by blue roses

Why is your "Order" so against the thought that Lyanna would be at the "Tower of Joy", in Dorne where Rhaegar's first wife's family rules, but, you think it obvious they hid in the crypts of Winterfell whilst Lyanna's family and men actively looked for them? One's as equally ridiculous as the other.

GRR Martin is truly a genius. thanks for helping to unreveal the story and adding more lines to it.

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Interesting theory of Lyanna and Rhaegar hiding in plain sight in Winterfell the whole time.  It does seem unlikely though.  Chance of a secret getting out is exponential to the who people who are in on it.  So you have servants, smithers, and countless others working for Lord Stark. So unless Lyanna was cooped up for a year, it's likely one of the servants would've have spotted her.  Lyanna is too free spirited to be locked up and she cleary doesn't have the discipline otherwise she wouldn't have eloped with Rhaegar.  Then if someone did see her, of course people do gossip like fish wives.  Eventually the little birds would've sent back message to King's Landing and the gig is up.

If Ned did send Benjen to the wall for treason, I wonder what Ned would've done with Lyanna had she survived.  It would've been an impossible choice.  Exhile Lyanna from Winterfell?  Go to war with Robert to protect her?

It's also unlikely Ned would conspire with Varys considering he worked for the Mad King.  It served no purpose to lead Ned to TOJ.  That's definitely a false herring.  For the most part Varys is a pragmatist and doesn't let sentiment get in the way.  

In the show, Varys seems oblivious to the fact Jon is Rhaegar's son despite their limited interaction.  If Varys does realize Jon is the rightful heir to the throne, what would he do?  Remain loyal to Daenerys?  Switch sides again and swear fealty to Jon?  Kill Jon to eliminate the competition?

It seems possible, i must admit. But i cant believe your theories 100% as long you still seem to believe n+a=j and it is not true. Maybe lyanna wasnt in toj, but shes jons mother.

Picking up the theory that Lyanna is not Jon's mother it is quite strange that Ygritte tells that story to Jon it seems that is teasing something like, well the same happened to you mother. Right now and after listening your point of view about Jon's true parentage only GRRM knows the true and he can, could already changed the course of the history inside is own story. Might thought about R+L, but could really be E+A right now. The plot thickens and that's pretty cool to me. I think I would became very disappointed if the books turned out to have the same ending as the show. Like a genius that GRRM is I guess and hope we have a different ending.

Ygritte tells Jon the story of Bael in the same book that Osha uses the same trick to hide Bran and Rickon. She even says all the free folk know the song. Could it just be an explanation for Osha having such a clever plan?

Also when Jon and they girl he fell in love with are in the cave and she says let's just not leave is probably the same thing rhaygar was feeling since he thought the was the prince who was promised so its kinda the same situation

I just hope the walkers win, i really do, all this speculation about characters motives, history and Identities is making my brain hurt

Nice to see the beautiful face that goes with that lovely voice. My compliments dear lady.

Where did the baby exchange took place if Lyanna was in winterfell all the time.
So Ned goes to ToJ, then to starfall, then to riverrun and back to winterfell.
If Lyanna is in winterfell how does the baby exchange at Starfall takes place? Doesn't make any sense.
Winter roses were at Harrenhall in the tourney (Lyanna's Crown) , so maybe they took a few potted ones to ToJ.

good theory I always thought that the tower of joy as hiding place doesn't make sense. i actually remembered something that would absolutely proof that theory and reread the dream chapter. It speaks of 2 different towers: He dreamt an old dream, of 3 knights in white cloaks, and A TOWER LONG FALLEN, and…etc then continues: …They waited before the ROUND TOWER, the red mountains of Dorne…etc.
another thought maybe Ned never had Lyanna's child at all and he if going with your meeting theory fought to get it back. A bed of blood doesn't necessarily mean Ned saw Lyanna after giving birth she could have simply committed suicide in the glass garden after hearing of Rhaegar 's death due to grieve and terms or avoid having to marry Robert or because she just had the child taken away from her as safety measures. Maybe they weren't at Winterfell the entire time but Lyanna was brought back there before Rhaegar went to battle soshe can give birth at a safe place

Wow just as the killing of texas police officer J.D. Tippet is the key to the Kennedy assassination, benjen is the key to the truth of Rhaegar and Lyanna's tale , ive always felt his joining the watch after losing his father , brother and sister was a bit strange indeed, it leaves the stark line pretty bare just ned and robb , that he would choose this time to renounce any future claims on winterfell is really short sighted if him and Ned , for instance ned could of fell of a horse and died ,children die at young ages all the time in our story , benjen and ned were really risking alot by A. Benjen being allowed to join the watch or B. Ned sending him to join the watch, this struck me as completely wrong on first reading and makes less and less the more we learn of this world

It's sounds like Bael's son, who later became Stark King was a Warg. With the subsequent Lord skinning his Wolf form to wear as a cloak. Perhaps growing up fatherless meant that when Mum committed suicide, it was too much for him the bear, and either accidentally or deliberately spent too much time warged within a Wolf. It might not have been treachery for a new Stark leader to have arisen in his place if Bael's son went AWOL due to becoming permanently lost while Warging.

So by your theory Lyanna has Aegon at Winterfell?
Then how does Ned pull off the switch wish Ashara for Jon?

"Whether or not Robert had a right to know if a Targeryan heir was born" why would Ned tell Robert after he already knows Robert would have the baby murdered seeing as his half brother and sister were already killed, no way Ned would risk the life of his dead sisters child. I don't think I have to waste time telling anyone why the Kings guard definitely wouldn't be telling Robert either.

Where is Jon born? In the Wolfs Den or in Starfall?
And would they baby-swap work if Aegon is born in Winterfell and Jon in Starfall? Ned would have to travel through the entire continent with Baby Aegon without even knowing if Ashara would even agree to swap the babys and faint her own death. To me it does seem more likely for Ned to take baby Aegon from the Tower of Joy to Starfall.
I also seem to recall Catelyn only remembering Ned return from the War with a baby. Not him leaving with one from Winterfell to retrive another.
I know it's been a time since this video was published but I would be really greatful to recieve further insight into this.

If Ned and Benjen are estranged, why was he even at Winterfell for the feast? I'm estranged from some of my family and if I was having a feast with the Queen of England, they still wouldn't be invited and I've only been estranged 2 years. If it's been 15, it probably wouldn't even occur to Ned to invite Benjen.

Varys and Set Davos

GRRM is an executive producer for the show and he's said he's happy with how the show is doing. One of the questions he asked Benioff and Weiss before he gave them permission to adapt his books to a tv show is who Jons mother was. They gave him the correct answer and Martin gave his OK to make the show: http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-ending-season-5-producers-interview-1201469516/
And they weren't the first ones to ask Martin to adapt his story, he's refused them all.

While The Order makes some very interesting points, I'm left wondering how true to Martins books the tv show will be. They may have decided to change some things to make the show something unique and keep the later seasons seperate from the books. GRRM has written an episode in each of the first four seasons but stopped that from season 5 onwards. So it may be true that he's only an executive producer in name.

So was fAegon born in Winterfell then?

I haven't read the books , I'm planning to do so , I really like the show though I know this show will not end the way we want to, but I'm hoping Danny and Jon get together they both have been thru so much pain ! They deserve to have some happiness, I know many will say they are related but remember this is a show for Adults not children and it's just a show not a real life event .

So, I am going to have to go back and re-read the books again. You make excellent points!

Theres records of leanna n rheagers wedding n of his enullment of his wedding to the martell

Of the millions of GOT theories out there this has got to be the dumbest one I've ever heard!!

I enjoy that you both put such thought into your theories . . . But in the miasma of hypotheticals, I lost what the purpose of this meeting was that all involved quickly abandoned for bloodshed . . . After Rhaegar's defeat, with three of the Rhaegar's guard that were neither with him at the Trident nor (in your theory) actively guarding a pregnant Lyanna. (Tiny aside: Couldn't they have been waiting outside for all to see because they were occupying a TOWER with presumably advantageous fields of view that allowed them to see Ned & Co. approaching?)

Also, though it's hard to imagine two high-borns slumming it in the crypts for a year, with questionable supplies (though a Benjen collusion should fit) to sustain them . . . I don't know how you could sell me on Lyanna staying there ALONE after Rhaegar has been fetched from and gone to "far away."

It seems far more feasible that these men were tasked with Lyanna's protection upon Rhaegar leaving for the fight, and though Lyanna may not have been at the Tower of Joy for the entirety of her tryst with Rhaegar (instead, having visited numerous sites to remain undiscovered), that she was that day.

By the way if I didn't mention before, YOU GUYS ROCK!!!

I dig it

Right, I seen it, but why there?

If there was no one in the Tower of Joy, then why was the three best members of the Kingsguard there in the first place?

I'm sorry I love most of your videos but there's just one thing that I don't agree with or at least I should say I don't get if at the very least if Rhaegar didn't kidnap Lyarnna why did the war happen, why allow it to go so fun and not just revile the truth, please could you clarify.

OK, OK is the Who was born in the tower of joy video a metaphor? And that Aegon was born in Winterfell?

It has always driven me nuts WHY Benjen was at the wall!!! You may have just converted me with that one

What about brans dream of the tower of jou

so the movie is just a dream or this theory fail?

Ugh, not this again… Just apply Aloe on that burn and move on, kneelers. :/

Good grief. If what you speculate here is correct, then GRRM is intentionally obscure and misleading, to the point that the vast majority of his audience is getting a completely different story from what he's supposedly telling. If that's the case, he's just a terrible writer.

…but I don't think that's really the case. It seems like you guys are just trying to come up with contrarian "theories" in order to seem distinctive, and doing some serious stretching to tie together a lot of incredibly weak connections.

I always wondered why if Rhaegar was Jon Snow's father he had black hair when all Targaryens had platinum blonde hair.

Maybe cold hands will tell Jon the truth.

the word of ice and fire says she disappeared near harrenhal, so you're most likely wrong

I get that you guys are into The Wire but…some of the references are awkwardly matched. Not seeing the connection between both shows frankly