Game of Thrones|N+A=J|Part 2|The True King of the North

I love your videos and when I read the books came to the same conclusion. I was a little confused when HBO went where they did, but realized they had gone past the books and were trying to wrap up the series and took the easiest path since they pretty much erased most of the Dornish part. Good job.

35 people want to declare for a false king

What happened there was special to Ned not Batshit sister 1. And he didn't want to embarrass his now wife by telling tales to her children of a woman who was more beautiful and loved more. Though I would have loved for Ned to have told the story to Jon as a little boy. And he forgot about it until someone else reminds him of it. (This is for the books as the show has gone far off course.)

Finally a sane video about it
I believed the show was right after all after SE6E10
Then the season finale of season 7 came and that made me think that it isn't exactly the same in the books
especially the annulment and the two aegons parts

Change ur name

He could have been in love with Ashara too but married Catelyn in honor after his brother's death.  This still does not prove that Ned and Ashara had Jon.

I'm sure he said "Never ask me about Jon" b/c the rumor mill was going at that time that he had a relationship with her and maybe that's whom he had a son with.  He doesn't want to talk about anything dealing with this or any questions that could lead to Jon's true birth.  why wouldn't he just say yeah I slept with so and so and it was a mistake?  Why does he think of Lyanna's death when he's in prision at Kings Landing?  Maybe b/c he knows that this huge secret might die with him.  I still think the series has it correct b/c the thing mentioned over and over again is that no one can believe he fathered a bastard due to his honor.  This is a huge deal and why everyone was so shocked he came back with Jon in the first place.

What are the coinidences? The moment I start telling friends that "R+L=J is just too easy", I find videos about how it's not true! I am just loving these hypotheses you guys are making! Excellently done!

I cant wait to see the videos after WOW what would you come out with them

the timeline say¨s nothing about jon-s birth

U guys do some interesting videos….. Dont even care if its true….. But still it all makes sense in a weird way

Pretty much all names are common in Westeros.

omg, Ned is a common name… jesus.

Reagan said "Facts are stubborn things" in the Debate against Mondale I believe.

I'm a little late to the party, but I've recently started reading the books and was interested in your theory. I can definitely agree that Ned and Ashara had a relationship prior to Ned's marriage to Catelyn. I will have to hold my opinion on Jon's parentage until I watch the rest of your videos in this series.

Why would the Dayne's honor the man who killed their son and scorned their daughter. I'm still waiting for that answer……… Just kidding it all good, when you think about, Ned was an honorable man and it his relationship with Ashya was as long as you guys previously showed then the Dayne's would know how much he loved her. And I think both Ashya and the rest of the Dayne's would understand what Ned did he had no choice but to marry Catylen after his brother died especially during a war he didn't want to leave her and him and Aurther were warriors on opposing sides at least he brought back the sword, he was even willing to take the child he had with Ashya but with to raise as his own as to take responsibility, (if this theory is true which I hope it is). On a side note I know this doesn't have much to do with the video it just I like thinking on why the Dayne's hold Ned so close to their hearts to name a child after him.

The Order of the Green Hand

I'm still intrigued. I just want to touch on one detail. I've heard someone else mention when Cat asks Ned about Ashara. I have to point out that we don't actually know what Cat asked him. It's not quoted in the text. Shes thinking about how Ned came home with John and everyone wispers about how Ashara is the mom. Then it says she got up the courage to ask him. She may have asked if Ashara is John's mother, to which he replied, never ask me about John. That's just been bugging me.

You know, most Maury Povich episodes are about the father…

Another thing, why would the Ashara and Ned love story need to be invalid? That might still have happened, even if Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon's parents.

I think personally think this might be what happens in the books, I wouldn't think they would do the same thing in the books as they did on the show, it wouldn't kill off people buying the books, let's be honest, but it would make it less attractive, people would still buy the books for the more indepth details that it gives, and yes, there are vast differences in between book and show.

I don't think this theory is going to be true in either case, but it is interesting and it made me stop up and think.

I am not sure if I buy the R+L theory either, but it seems like it is the theory they are going for.

GRRM seems to get a LOT of credit, possibly too much, I do believe that he could in fact have been less complex than you would want him to be, not to say that he isn't as complex, just pointing out the obvious that he might not be.

I'm sold! I really like your theories. I just wonder how R and L managed to live in the crypts of Winterfell for so long! I suppose that's a testimony of true love. Did Benjen Stark smuggle meals to the crypts, or did R and L order take out?

The show has gone too far from the books. Martin's song is beautifully written. Your special talent is to uncover the truth of the song😀 unfortunately the show misleads audience by mixing the character and forgetting important details…damn!

Have yet to watch part 3 and not sure if it's been mentioned in the comments but Ned Stark mentions to King Robert the name of Jon's mother being a woman named Wylla who Ned Dayne claims is the name of the shared wet nurse between him and Jon. Makes more sense to me. LRJ is way too easy. Although I wouldn't be shocked to see a divergence here between HBO and Martin.

First let me say your videos are awesome!! I love everything Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire. I am going to play Devils Advocate here though and say you do jump to a lot of conclusions based on what you want to hear when GRRM makes his comments. Also, maybe Ashara killed herself because she was in love with Ned and he had to marry Cat, very simple. Her family understood and held no ill will towards him. When Gerold Hightower said they were far away, well the Tower of Joy is far away from the Trident and maybe he was just being sarcastic. I do like the theory though and I would have loved to see more of the Daynes in the show. With Dawn at Starfall I had also entertained the thought that Jon could be the next Sword of the Morning and he would get Dawn as it isn't handed down by birth but he would have to be a Dayne. Starfall may be Lightbringer as well, you never know. Some people think Dawn never went back to Starfall and that Ned kept it at Winterfell. Well now I have just blabbed on and on, once us fans get going look out. Like I said, love the videos and theories, as well as the time you take to research material to make your theories stick. Keep up the good work.

where is the sword dawn does any one know

I feel foolish for saying it, but I used to ascribe to this theory after watching Preston videos, but then the show made its big reveal and was so caught up in the moment (it was a really well done sequence, butchery of plot in the show aside) and told myself that despite all the changes the show had made, no way they would deviate so hard as to change Jon Snow's parentage from the books. To me it seems to just dismiss the whole question and settle it, but few problems with that:
1) as this channel points out, there are just WAY TOO MANY reasons why N + A = J makes more sense than R + L
2) the show had already deviated so much that maybe (likely?) it was too late to tell the truth. There is a shit ton of background info you have to lay out just to explain it correctly and they decided to just go for R + L because that fits the shortened, watered down tv version of the plot. Makes it a neater story when you have limited time and money to tell a story
3) Though it is massively SUGGESTED by the TV show in the TOJ scene that J = R + L, the show has a history of tricking people (jon snow is dead anyone?) and the reveal is solely from the perspective of Bran's vision quests, which there is reason to suspect not all of those visions are genuine. The forces at play could be showing Bran something for their own reasons or assisting him in drawing false conclusions. I have a feeling that the show could be trying to mislead us.

I have this terrible hunch that the next book will be released when the HBO series ends.

With hindsight!
I'm afraid that you are wrong. And R&L = JS

I agree that Robert may not have been told by Ned if he was starting to see Ashara in the months after Harrenhal…as Ned may have met her at Gulltown initially….rather than make her travel the long journey all the way up to the Eyrie. Also, if it was in it's early stages, I doubt Ned would have told blabbermouth Robert, in case it didn't work out there would be no dishonor to her through gossip.
If she was seeing Ned before the Riverrun wedding, then it is not necessary Robert knew, as he traveled south through Gulltown (through fighting) to Storm's End, Ned went north through Sisterton to White Harbor. Ashara may not have seen Robert at all.

Was it quiet wolf or shy wolf? A couple of videos ago you said Ned was referred to by Meera as the quiet wolf and how that relates to Ghost not making a sound.

the dude Dave's voice is cool, much like Robert baratheon

Awesome video. Consider my mind blown. Not only do you show why N+A is correct but why it is not the other theory R+L

I found the statement from Jon Arryn "the blood is strong" about Robert's bastards shows that Jon could be Robert's child

ned dayne's name is edric not eddard

I must say, that assuming that Ashara Dayne left King's Landing after leaving the service of the Elia, just because Tywin's wife left after leaving the service of the queen. You have made videos about Tywin and how very different that situation was than ANY other situation in King's Landing. I think it is likely she would return home, but I do not think Joanna's situation has any bearing on what Ashara would do.

Honestly, I think They were romantically involved. But I think that it is true that Lyanna is his mother. I bet he did have a child out of wedlock without his knowledge, but it is not John.

I'm sure you guys covered this (I've also watched every single video you have & some of them 3-5x – lol…)…so, anyways, what I mean to ask is – Q&A What do you guys think about R+L=J & Æ …? I just remembered your video(s) on Val (THE Twin)…either way, what do you thing about Gryffindor Jr being Jon's Twin? (Remember, I have 1 eye open & half asleep & going back 2 sleep RIGHT NOW, lol..so my logic & memory might be off @tm…)

Ha, soo yeah.. Ægon Targaryen/Blackfyre (or possibly even Dayne because of Griff's obvious Valyrian looking traits/features…and then Dayne because/if R+L=J&A …I keep thinking there's gotta be another pair of twins besides Cersei & Jaime. Sure, there's Jon & Val as you believe too… I'm just always thinking bed of blood…birth complications…ergo death via birthing twins! Lastly, Young Griff – his timeline…he's provable to be younger than Jon, correct? I can't remember the info gathering surrounding his birth date & other settings (where, who, why etc).

Okay, gonna go look @ your videos list & see if there's one you explain Ægon/Young Griff…(I'm doing a reread right now before season 7 begins & HOPEFULLY W.o.W. is released immediately…it would be amazing if the surprise is Episode 1 airing that W.o.W. is released! Ha, Amazon would freeze on everyone…super overload! Oh, and just to mention…Chris of SmokeScreen (I believe is the 1st who said it…not that it's a big deal who was 1st about this…) said watch George have both books ready simultaneously & that's why the wait has been so long (+ the show relationship)…or rather he said A.D.o.S. will be pretty much ready & it'll be announced @ W.o.W. release that they say book 7 will be released @ Season 8 or any short time period after book 6…or like I said, both book's 6 & 7 released TOGETHER! Sorta like AFFC & ADWD was initially 1 book & then had to be split in 2 (OBVIOUSLY, lol)…

Ok, I'm rambling now…sorry!! Good day!

Order of the Green Hand. Thanks! and finally!!!! I prefer the books and am somewhat frustrated with the road the show has taken. I realize I come late to your videos but am happy to finally have some more evidence for denying R+L=J. I just did not buy it, Too cliche for the complexity of the story. Jon´s identity is so defined by the north that I couldn´t swallow him being a Targaryen…. plus I do not see how Targaryens are so great really.
Would you do a Martell video? I was so angry when they killed Oberyn Martell in the show! I think he is great.

Ned Dayne's full name is Edric Dayne, not Eddard.

Great video

If Ashara was his mother, why would he refuse to name her, refuse to speak of her… why would his parentage be SUCH a HUGE secret? It doesnt add up. Theres just too many huge holes in this theory.

"what about Ashara?"
"don't ask about Jon!"

ok, GRRM, roger that!

So, Ashara birthed Jon, in the books, then left him with Ned, family had a cover story that she threw herself off a cliff and fled to Essos with Jon Connington, et al, to escort Aegon VI with purple dyed hair, down the Rhoyne. But why would she leave her son, Jon, behind and with Ned. Mothers are most attached to their children – if they're decent people.

I'm afraid Jon = Lyanna's baby is certain. Who the father is, is not yet set. Bran's visions are accepted fact. It looks like they're following the Rhaegar tract but a Dayne tract is possible. Don't expect Hollywood, cable or HBO to present as vast and real-world convoluted a universe as GRR and how truth is obscured by misconceptions. Popular culture rarely goes that deep and GRR is breaking from tradition in so many ways, screenwriter that he is.

Funny, GRR is like the God creator of his own universe and we go to him with questions.