Game of Thrones|N+A=J|Part 3|Ned’s First Born Son

I can not understand why so many theorist and book readers subscribe to the idea that Jon is RHAEGARS son.

Wouldnt wyman manderly know jons parentage in this case

Turning 15 and being 15 is not the same thing, one happens in a day and the other lasts a whole year – has a whole year passed between the two chapters you referred?

It still takes 9 months to have a baby, if Ned was in a relationship with this woman for 13 months and his brother died during that time how does a seemly forced marriage produce an heir that quickly? And if your saying Robb is Brandon's son, then why would Cateyln treat Jon Snow the way she did? Ned would know Robb is not his son, both would be hiding a lie, why, if Jon is not heir to the Iron Throne, would he keep his birth's mother's identity from Cateyln? I have enjoyed your videos (not a book reader) and we're on the other side of this for the TV show which has gone in the direction of R+L=J; but your timeline is too close for me for two children to be born of the same parentage: Ned.

George clearly hates Cat, too. No redeeming qualities – even her mama bear instinct leads to shit. She was robbed of everything she ever wanted – Brandon, true Lady of Winterfell, beautiful babies that'll make her proud and have tons of grandbabies that will be perfect ladies and lords and knights. Except she got stuck with Ned, who already had a legit heir and marriage. Jon is in her face daily reminding her that her children are actually bastards PLUS he's an ideal leader and expert swordsman, a good brother. Arya is a tomboy, Bran (her fave of faves) is broken, Rickon is wild with wolf's blood, Sansa is betrothed to a sadist and taken away to KL. She initiates the death of her husband, although that's probably what she wanted. But karma is a bitch and it simultaneously sets in motion the downfall of her own children, losing both girls (no big tho since they don't have penises) Bran is off becoming a 3eyed raven and Rickon has hopefully not taken to cannibalism. Robb dies. Then she gets herself killed. Like DAMN you took everything she held dear and decimated it hahaha even as Stoneheart it seems more like a punishment…forced to live in hatred and agony, in purgatory, so to speak.

Can you please explain what happened to Elia's son Aegon that was killed by The Mountain? Who if born at the end of 281 would be about 2 to almost 3 years old? So many people think he was an infant when killed. Could Ned have told Lyanna what happened and she named her son Aegon in honor of the one that was slain? Please help me tie up this loose end. I love your theories and channel so much.

you had me there with the fisherman daughter still doesnt disprove R+L =J

Why didn't ashara follow ned to Winterfell?

One of the best/informative YT sites devoted to GoT–thank you.

And, now that the show has gone pretty far down the RLJ path since this vid was presented, do you have a revised version of this theory? I don't disagree with it, but given D&D's strong build of the RLJ plot line, do you foresee a crazy plot shift to NAJ in seasons 7/8? I can't see such a huge rift in book vs. show parentage, so if this theory is true, the show's going to have to make an amazing turnaround…

Isn't it strange how Jon in Season 7 Episode 5 used his uncle's words when saying good-bye to Dany?!! " I wish you good fortune in the wars to come!"

The fisherman's daughter had purple eyes yet and no one noticed?

I thought for sometime Jon was actually older than Robb. However, regarding Jon's parentage, I literally thought your theories were insane. Now, I'm 90ish percent on board. The 3 heads of the dragon could be Dani, Gryff, and Tyrion; and Jon the Sword of the Morning. All of which may be needed for the war to come.

Well, his name is Snow, so he clearly isn't from Dorne. Only bastard kids born in the north have the name "Snow"

No bullshit…you've convinced me. It always rubbed me wrong that Ned would never have told Cat that Jon was not his son if R+L=J. He could have spared Cat a whole lot of pain and likely made things easier for Jon if Cat had known the truth. It's hard for me to believe that he would have been concerned that Cat would spill the beans, and if he vowed to his sister that he would not tell a soul, I'd argue that he's shown the willingness to bend on issues like that, as he showed when he changed the wording of Roberts last will.

Great series guys…you have a new subscriber.

I'm a new subscriber

Your video's are amazing. However, if Ashara went with Ned traveling North, it would mean that Ned risked the life of the love of his life by having her travel with him through the Mountains of the Moon? I don't think this pragmatic man would EVER take such an unnecessary risk. If there was some other threat to them maybe, but even then I would have my doubts.

What is with this famous Quote: … but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the gods-wood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. “… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them,” he prayed, “and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive …”
Who do you think was meant exactly with that?

I never noticed before, but at 2:18, give or take a few seconds, if you listen carefully you can hear sirens wailing in the background lol

order of the green hand u guys r awesome, amazing videos as im watching i just want to go back and re read all the book, and also think to myself how much work u guys have to have done ty for that and keep it up!! i just started watching a lil while back good thing i found the playlist u guys laid out that was awesome to again ty ty

With all of Lady Dustin's talk of Brandon loving a bloody sword and taking maidenheads (weird scene down there with Theon) what do you think of the scenario that Catelyn got knocked up pre wedding and hurriedly married and bedded Ned afterward? Conveniently hides her BrandonBaby and explains her extreme disdain for bastards…because she knows/knew Rob is a bastard conceived out of wedlock and not Ned's true born. She has Bastard Skeletons in her closet. This also makes Ned's return with a male baby, potentially older than Robb, extremely troublesome regarding inheritance.

BOOM!

Ashara Dayne was from one of the oldest and most noble houses in Westeros. At her age, wouldnt her family arranged a marriage for her? Love matches are nice, but in this time and place, it didnt happen that way. Its not like they went to prom. Marriages were important and strategic. Eddard Stark was not the heir to Winterfell at the time. The marriage would not be considered advantageous to House Dayne. Ashara was a catch. The heir to House Dayne. Her brother gave up all rights when he became a kings guard.
Is it possible that she and Ned loved each other? Sure. Barristan loved her too. From what He said though, it sounds like the lady was in trouble and turned to Stark. Not naming which Stark made me think it was Ned. Known for his honor, he would not hesitate to help a lady in distress. I think he loved Ashara. I still think it was the Mad King that dishonored her and quite possibly Joanna as well. Would Ned take the child as his own. Well…yeah he would.
I fail to understand why, if Ned and Ashara married that it would be in secret. Brandon hadnt died yet. Why not announce the betrothal? Maiden ladies werent running around the realm without chaperones. It wasnt done.

I found some text in aDwD1 that seemed to fit this idea if it is true….
1. Davos' ship that he is smuggled out of Sisterton is called 'merry midwife'. It is old, and may be the same one Ned was smuggled out on with Ashara. The Lord has the same conversation with Davos as Ned had, and it makes sense that he would use a proven reliable Captain and crew for the task. If Ashara was noticeably prego, then the 'Merry Midwife' is a fitting name for the boat safely delivering the leige Lord of White Harbour's firstborn.
2. The following Jon chapter has Stannis say to Jon that he haggles like a crone with a codfish…'did Ned Stark father you on a fishwife?' lol….
3. Davos is then sent to the Wolf's Den, which was built by King Jon Stark, and hidden away but well looked after.

Great video.

Oh my gods I have just discovered your channel several videos ago and I am hooked. I never had the guts to contradict the R+L=J theory because it was so deep-rooted into the fandom and everyone was practically saying that it was true. But ever since I heard of it, I've ALWAYS thought 'this is not GRRM.' He is far too clever to dream this shit up. Thanks for putting in the effort to give us these videos, your calculations are so complex! It just goes to show that GRRM is truly a genius. Haha

Booo this whole theory is just an excuse for Jon to wield dawn

What i dont understand is why Ned keeps it such a big secret from Jon.

then how come Neds bff Robert knows nothing about Ned and Ashara? Robert thinks Neds girl was Wylla…

I love your videos. you have put more thought into your theories than anyone else I've seen. you seem to use the same thought process as GRRM does when he writes.

I'm loving your videos, I just found the channel last night and will go through them all. This Ashara Dayne baby swap it happened to Jon and then Jon does it to Gilly is brilliant. The theories on the crew of the Shy Maid also is wonderful. I'd already made the connection of the Azor Ahai prophecy to the sword Dawn to Jon Snow but this theory explains it better than any one.

I'd been a big fan of the N+A=J theory so when HBO crushed it, I figured it was done. I also figured that HBO would diverge at most 20-30% from the show but then come back in the end. HBO's deviation from the Aegon storyline seemed for budgetary and time constraint reasons and the Sansa one because they didn't know what to do with Littlefinger in the Vale and wanted to work more with the North.

You're giving me hope that our beloved and yet painfully slow-writing author would go that route in the books. I just can't wrap my head around how GRRM would let such a massive deviation from his storyline about the secret identity of Jon Snow's mother be put in the show. And how if Aegon is the Prince who was Promised or anything more than a mummer's dragon, he would have consented for that character to be taken out.

Some TV characters play dual roles of book characters : Edrick Storm/Gendry, Jorah Mormont/Jon Connington it would seem to me that Jon/Aegon is a bridge too far.

It's fitting how this places Jon's birth in the north, making him an actual northman and apt to be called Snow. That his parents are from both extremes of the realm is also an interesting combination.

I recently discovered your channel and have watched your videos a number of times. I like your theories very much and hope that they will be revealed as true in the next two books. Can you imagine the outrage in the fandom – people are very attached to R+L=J? So much so that I don't want it to be true and I believe Martin is far cleverer than that.

Something that's occurred to me is the theme of bastardy in throughout. Jon identifies with the term bastard and it would be very fitting to find out that he isn't one after all. Sansa, meanwhile, are struggling with pretending to be a bastard and I like the symmetry of her eventually finding out that she really is one.

Keep up the good work!

I think there is a lot of Ashara imagery in the Davos chapters in ADWD, and they also give us insight into Ned's travels and some Stark history. I sometimes think these chapters reference two women, not just one (Ned, you devil). Just not sold on any one x+y=j theory, but enjoy pursuing information on them all. Nice video!

I know you answered it in one of you videos but I can't remember which part of which video… what was the response to people who use Ned not thinking about Jon when thinking about his children to justify r+l=j? sorry I'm in a hurry as I'm in an argument with people who won't accept n+a=j

I always wondered why Ser Arthur Dayne stated "I wish you well in the wars to come" like he knew he was going to die.
I also wondered is Ser Arthur Dayne Jon's Father instead of Rhaegar, and Rhaegar saying "wait! wait!" Before have his chest crushed by the WarHammer. What was he trying to explain to Robert?

I really like your videos

All right stay with me on this one. you might be able to shed some light on this theory, that Rob stark is in fact Brandon Starks and Catelyns baby. So it would be another baby fake out. Barbrey Dustin talks about how Brandon like to have his way with the ladies like it or not. why wouldn't he do it with the women he is suppose to marry. it could have happen before He went to kings landing. this theory coincides with your theory with the Black Fish falling out with his brother knowing well that Cat was pregnant and Neds broken marriage with Ashra. It also explains a little bit that why Rob appears a little older than Jon. i could be wrong about some of this.

Chabunga is getting old now.
I have seen so many books translated to movies/multi-media.
It seems inevitable that changes will happen. We have all experienced it.

Just discovered your videos and love them! I'm a Ashara theory subscriber and still hope it turns out to be true in the books. Seems to me that there is a rift between GRRM and HBO and I would not be surprised he's not telling them stuff after all the changes they made. D&D promised him all they wanted to do is adapt his story and that did not happen.

While i disagree with your idea that Jon is Ned's first born son I do like your evidence and research in the topic keep up the good work and it would be an interesting twist of fate that this does in fact turn out to be true and R+L=J is false I wouldn't be to disappointed with all of the evidence you have shown me.

I JUST discovered your channel; enjoyably presented content. Thanks for posting!

congratulations you have officially won me over just a quick question though what was ashara's hair colour? was it black because I heard George rr Martin insisted that kit Harrington dye his hair black before he was cast as Jon snow. if her hair colour was black that's very good evidence right