Game of Thrones|Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne|Part 1

To understand what George meant with this "shadow" answer, and to understand Quaithe of the Shadow, and Asshai-by-the-Shadow, you need to go into Jungian territory, and study his shadow theory. This wiki article is not a bad start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology) but I'm afraid you'd better read his books. George is obviously very much into Jung, so it will probably not be a waste of time.

It's now confirmed that Jon is not Ashara's son. I agree that Septa Lemore is Ashara. But I think that Young Griff is not "Prince Aegon" but indeed a "False Dragon" Ashara's bastard son, possibly sired by Ned or Brandon Stark. Daynes and Targaryiens are similar in appearance and both have purple eyes. Some even have Pale blonde hair like Edric Dayne.

I came to the same conclusion while reading the books. However, the tv show is going in a totally different direction, obviously.

Usually insane females are also insanely attractive.

You are reading way too much into this comment. "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The shadow knows" he was referring to the 1930's stories about The Shadow that were featured in pulp novels back then. It was nothing more than a joke. Also a completely unrelated topic if the children of the forest were the true enemy and in league with the white walkers why did they give the Nights Watch obsidian arrow heads and spear heads to fight them with every year for a very long time?

You guys rock ! Watched a little over half your video's so far , I'm working my way your playlist, there easily the best researched and coherent I've seen , I'm on board with your young griff/aegon/ neds son theory , i had one hang up which you kindly answered thank you, keep up the good work , were going to need it with the depths of memdom the show has now sunk to in season 7

So this video truly had me thinking. I gotta ask you both, so is this your theory based on ASOIAF? Or a GOT? And or has your opinion changed now after last night's episode??

I've always assumed that Septa/Lady Lemore was Ashara Dayne

Could she also be the crow? She took a leap from a tower?? Would have likely landed in water…….

Thank you for this channel. It's very interesting. I love the way it's very meticulous.

Howland Reed was one of the Shadows in Ned's fever dream.

Ashara really could have killed herself because at the end of the Robert's Rebellion Ned chose to go back to Catelyn Tully rather than Ashara. Septa Lemore could be the wet nurse Wylla.

"the shadow" is from Catelyn's POV so this shadow is the woman Catelyn THINKS was Ned's mistress. Catelyn as a POV character is wrong, like so many other POV characters are when they assume things such as Jaime. Catelyn is often wrong in her assuming. She assumed Tyrion tried to kill Bran & she is wrong about Ned ever having been unfaithful. However, I dont disagree that Benjen, Ashara and Howland Reed know who Jon's mama is.

The shadow! The shadow… THE SHADOW

Re-watching all the vudeos, yet again, and it's amazing how I just can't seem to piece the entire ouzzle together. I mean, Young Griff makes sense, but the Golden Company fighting for a Targaryen is what holds me back. That's the fly in the pudding. But everything else falls into place. But then there's the "Mummer's Dragon" as well.
Aggghhh. GRRM has created the greatest book of riddles ever. This will never be topped.

Hi I'm confused by your assumption that the shadows are Brandon and the woman i.e.: Jon's mother.
"Edward Stark had married her in his brother's stead, as custom decreed.  However the shadow of his dead brother Still laid between them."As did the other ..shadow= woman.  The shadow of the woman he would not name. The woman who borne him his bastard son."
As you rightly point out Brandon is dead.  However, since Brandon's shadow still lays between them, I don't believe he can be the shadow.  
Then there is this line: "As did the other…. , who is this?
Is it the Shadow who also happens to be the woman?  In that case way there's, "As did the other …woman, the shadow of the woman he…  hmmmm, there are two women here. 
Or "As did the other" …shadow, the shadow of the woman… and here we have Repetition.
Why repeat shadow/woman/mother.  This makes no sense at all for such a careful writer.
Imo, there are four people referenced in  Catelyn Stark thoughts of shadows.  Two of whom are bastard sons.  GRRM gives us the answer, which is hidden in plain sight, at the end of the paragraph.   Shadow = bastard son. 
When the shadow is replaced with Bastard son it makes perfect sense.
When the shadow is replaced with mother there are to many women and it makes for very bad grammar.
So Brandon's Shadow.   = Robb RiversThe woman's Shadow = Jon Snow
IMO, It all comes down to Catelyn telling Robb,  "It does not always happen the first time."  Then thinking to herself "although it did with you."   (Note, no mention of wedding night).
It's inconceivable* that Catelyn and Ned only had sex on their wedding night and certainly impossible for Catelyn to know that Robb was conceived her first time with Ned.  Ned stayed for two weeks after their wedding and would have taken every opportunity to ensure he produced a son and heir and further Lord of Winterfell, especially as was he of to war and an uncertain future.
Most woman miss their first period before they have any inkling they may be pregnant.  Then the dates are taken from their last period.
You can only be certain of the exact date of conception if you only had sex once within that period.*  
And in Catelyn's case that was when Brandon Stark seduced her with promises that they would wed on his return, Catelyn gave her " favour" to her tall, handsome fiancé who gallantly fought PetyrBaelish for her hand.  
Brandon Stark "loved the sight of Maiden blood on his sword" and knew how to get what he wanted. 
When Jaime Lannister said. "“No doubt Ned wished to spare you. His sweet young bride,  if not quite a maiden.”  Catelyn makes no objection to this accusation. 
However, when Jaime names littlefinger as the culprit,  She vehemently objects. 
"Why, every man at court has heard him tell how he took your maiden hood, my Lady."  ""That's a lie!"  Catelyn Stark said.

I believe the shadow refers to bastard baby, so Robb is Brandon's shadow and Jon is the shadow of the woman that Ned would not name. This is why Catelyn is so horrified when she witnesses Stannis's shadow kill his brother Renly. It is what she has always feared, that Jon Snow would threaten/kill Robbs Rivers chance of being lord of winterfell if the truth of her infertility should come out. If you replace shadow with bastard baby in the sentence, it makes more sense than adding the word woman, because then there are too many women.

Dude… Blue rose blooming on the Wall. He's Lyanna's son, look no further.

Damn girl! You are hard core for counting shadows!!I'm loving your vids! Thanks to The Order of the Green Hand for all your hard work!

Well, if there's reason for Ashara to be alive, then there may also be reason for Brandon Stark to be alive. We have faked deaths, misinterpreted deaths, and actual revivals. At this point I'd say all dead characters are Schrodinger's cats.

Can you make some videos on the truth behind Dany's birth and her dreams of the red door?

Hmmmm….Could Rob have been Brandon's son? When she said the shadow between them?

and while she was naked Tyrion noted she had a belly that was soft like only those women who had born children.

I've only seen the show and have yet to read the books. With that in mind, I have a question. On the show we see Bran witnessing Arthur Dayne's death. But you guys have theorized that he is alive. Am I missing something or is the Tower of Joy scene unique to the show? Anyway keep up the great work. I'm hooked 🙂

Interesting theory but I have to disagree as well, besides "The Shadow Knows" obviously being a reference to the radio/comic character. Lemore is too old (mid 40's) to be Ashara, you could counter that GRRM doesn't give Ashara's exact year of birth however, Lemore lacks Ashara's violet eyes, something I think Tyrion would of noticed during his time with her.

Why would Rhaegar leave Lyanna without a Maester? He has 3 of the best Knights in the realm to protect her.. but know Maester? Couldn't that be the Maester that is with them Young Griff like you say from Winterfell? Wouldn't Lyanna be described more handsome then beautiful? Could Lyanna be the Septa & she promised Ned to say she was dead so she could protect her son? Of course she must keep it a secret that she is young Griffs mother for the purpose of succession. Also the bed of blood and fooling Ned she was dying idk. Also Robert never saw the one thing he wanted & loved more then anything put to rest in Winterfell? You're videos have convinced me as of the books. That N + A = J.. So could any of what I said possibly be true? Also the Tower of Joy been Ashara giving birth with Lyanna in Winterfell. It's been awhile since I've read the books.

the shadow knows… damn

I am liking how much research, effort and detail you put into your theories. I wonder how long it'll be before the Last Harpy steals them and still gets half the details wrong.

Best got videos ever 🙂

But they have already said his parents are Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark

Another subtle clue that Ashara is Jon's mother is when Stannis said that his mother must have been a fishermans wife when they were negotiating. If Ashara is indeed the fishermans daughter Ned took to White harbor.

great channel guys!

it's true. after watching your videos a lot of the other channels I previously watched just don't provide that same level of analysis you guys did. it's all just. r +l=jon is the song of ice and fire cause Lyanna is ice and Rhaegar is fire. and the evidence they offer is weak it's been confirmed on the show. lol. er hello…Barristan…Grey worm + missandei shipping…stannis…euron terrible cock speeches. ha ha don't take show as Gospel. theyre 2 completely different stories at this point

As Robert says to Cersei in the show. "7 kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left" that wound has never healed.

but in the books the ONLY person Robert hated with such a fury that 14 years later still burned as bright was for Rhaegar. He drunk to drown his feelings of shame and self loathing. I always thought that in such a martial culture where strength and battle prowess were prized that it still counted for nothing because Rhaegar was the better man and Lyanna chose him. that combined with witnessing his parent's death probably created the void of feeling unloved which he spent rest of his life trying to fill.

You only think you are crazy. And dead does not mean not walking around having conversations with people, not in this world.

ah ok..just wanted to make sure he was dead dead and not dead in the way the elder brother said the hound is dead,sandor is at peace kind of dead. he he

meant to ask if you thought Rhaegar is alive, and if one of his friends was glamoured by his rubies on the black armour when he fought Robert? or is he dead?

Well… I have to think you took his answer out of context. "The Shadow Knows" was a very common cliche back in the day. Everyone said it. Here's a link for you. It will help explain better than I could.

http://www.oldradioworld.com/shows/The_Shadow.php

great work love your stuff

Griff also calls her Lady Lemore at one point.