Robb Stark, not Jon Snow, is the true bastard of Winterfell.

The following ASOIAF theory comes from Bar Tube’s video and can be found here:

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Is Brandon Stark, and not Ned, the father of Robb? What secret is Catelyn Tully keeping?

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25 COMMENTS

  3. Note that you start by saying ignore the timeline. Of course you want to ignore the timeline. It puts the spear through the heart of this ridiculous theory. You are claiming that in succession a) Brandon impregnates Catelyn at Riverrun (or was it Herrenhall?), b) Leanna disappears near Herrenhall, c) Brandon travels to King's Landing to protest and is imprisoned there, d) Aerys summons Rickard to King's Landing to answer for Brandon, e) Rickard travels to King's Landing, f) Brandon and Rickard are murdered, g) Ned gets word of Brandon's death, h) Ned travels to Riverrun to marry Catelyn. And in all the time encompassing those events, it wasn't enough time for Catelyn's pregnancy to be visible?

    I'd sooner believe that Varys is a merman.

  7. I love the theory and I believe cat was not a virgin, but this theory is not plausible because of timeline. Even being generous, and saying Brandon got her pregnant the day he left, it can't happen. Let's just look at the timeline…… Brandon left Riverun to march north to meet his father, who is coming to riverrun for the wedding. the most southern point they could logically meet is the twins( or it could be more north, but that makes it worse). From riverrun to the twins, is about a week to two travel time. If they got word of Leanna's "kidnap", the day he arrived at the twins, and rushed to kings landing, that's an additional 2-3 weeks. After Brandon's arrest, word was sent to riverrun for Rickon to come to kings landing, 1-2 days for the raven to get there. Another 2-3 weeks for Rickon to travel to kings landing. If they were executed that day, and a raven was send to Jon aryan directly after another 2-3 days can be added. Ned then left the Eyrie, and went to white harbor, which according to Godric Borrell account took an additional 2-3 weeks. He then marshaled his forces, 2 week at minimum and marched south. Another month or so. After winning the battle, another day. He went to riverrun to get married, so add another week. So at the absolute minimum we are looking at about 15 weeks. Women start showing after about 3 months a pregnancy, meaning that Cat would be obviously pregnant at the time of there wedding. Because she wasn't, this shows that she could have been pregnant with Brandon's baby.

  9. This is why GRRM frustrates fans. He deliberately words things certain ways and makes you think there's a reason behind it. A lot of times there is a bigger picture he's hinting at. However, other than being a tease, I can't think of any reason Robb would not be Ned's son. Why would GRRM go out of his way to add to a character whose story is over? Even if Robb was a bastard it wouldn't be relevant to the story now. Why waste time on a storyline that will never play out or matter?

  11. I believe it I think Caitlin is a huge hypocrite in most of her view and treatment of others in comparison to herself as a Tully. She never truly embraces Winterfell or being a Stark and their motto on Family. Only those she considers family arent all the Starks really its the ones that appear more like Tullys

  12. She could've been talking about the folly of taking Tyrion Lannister prisoner (for a crime she later doubted he committed) and starting a chain of events that led to her husband (and supposedly 2 younger sons) dying. But that's kind of a stretch because that was more about wrath than love. Freeing Jaime, on the other hand, was done COMPLETELY for love (of her daughters) and ended up hobbling Robb's war effort. That's probably what she was talking about, given the circumstances.

    Yeah, when you stress the right word "his OWN son" sounds suspicious. When you DON'T stress that word… it sounds like a perfectly natural thing to say. That goes for several of your other examples as well. Yeah, it's fun to play "what if?" but the presented circumstantial evidence has to be presented in JUUUST the right way to look like evidence at all. Pretty thin. I've heard better arguments comically suggesting that Ser Pounce is actually Azor Ahai… to point out how easy it is to find support in the entirety of the text for basically ANY crazy-ass theory you want. (See: Alt Shift X's channel for that one.)

  16. This is very plausible. GRRM even said some things are intentional mistakes in terms of the timeline and wording.

    Now what would rub salt in the wound even more is if Jon was also Brandon's son. (B+A=J or N+A=J… I'm not sure which one I like more lol)

    I like when people think outside the box and are open to new ideas. GRRM didn't make this narrative world filled with so many possibilities only for it all to be black and white. He said he likes the grey area about stories. But anyway…

    Good Job 👍🏼

  17. I think this is a great theory that would make sense if it did occur. Particularly given Catelyn's wording throughout the first three books and Lady Dustin's description of Brandon. I don't understand the hate, good job!

  19. i agree with this theory. when I read the books I'm often looking for character motivation that's what makes the pov style of writing so effective. you've gotta ask your self two things about jon 1, why does Cat hate him/ resent his presence so much what's motivating that and 2, why didn't Ned just send jon away. now the second question has already been answered but it ties into the first. especially when you consider how well Cat and Ned got along otherwise. the emotions betray the Characters true reasoning.It's not even the fact that Ned apparently cheated on Cat that bothers her. which to me is clue. it shows that Cat isnt having a rash emotional response to jon in fact quite the contrary she seems measured and calculating but still upset jon is a problem, an on going problem but not because of her husbands infidelity.

    Let Me give you another example in a different context I believe that Jamie and Serci are the Mad King Aries children now there is potential evidence for either the twins or Tyrian to be the mad Kings children but what tips the scales for me is the Aries comment about Joanna's breasts that seems like the comment of a bitter ex boyfriend. their split was not amicable and they had a close enough relationship that there is lingering bitterness on the part of Aries. It seems like a small thing yes, but if your the King there are undoubtably lots of pretty girls around and we know Aries had affairs but this affair meant more to him at the very least the comment implies that the two probably had sex and as a writer why suggest something like that if it doesn't have some kind of relevance to the story?

    Cat's feelings towards jon have an explination and its not because her husband cheated on her.

  22. I've also considered that Rob is a bastard. But instead that Ned married Ashara Dayne in front of heart tree, had jon and then was forced to marry Cat(in a sept) for the alliance.

    Most of the North would not recognize a sept marriage over a heart tree marriage.

    idk though. there are so many possibilities

  25. I don't buy it! You are purposely ignoring the quote when she referred to Ned as the 'solemn Stanger she married and gave her maidenhead (virginity) to.

    This decisively quashes the notion that Rob was Brandon's bastard because:
    1. Brandon was no stranger as his bethrotal to Caitlyn was of long standing

    and

    2. No one would describe Brandon as 'solemn'

    You didn't even cite the full quote! You just cherry picked the part that would support you point. This is the first part of the quote below:

     "Ned had lingered scarcely a fortnight with his new bride before he too had ridden off to war with promises on his lips. At least he had left her with more than words; he had given her a son."

    Also time and again Caitlyn refers to Ned taking her virginity after they married.

    This quote is from A Storm of Swords when Walder Frey demanded that Lord Edmure marry his daughter and it strikes the death blow to your ridiculous theory.

    "She remembered her own childish disappointment, the first time she had laid eyes on Eddard Stark.

    She had pictured him as a younger version of his brother Brandon, but that was wrong.
    Ned was shorter and plainer of face, and so somber. He spoke courteously enough, but beneath the words she sensed a coolness that was all at odds with Brandon, whose mirths had been as wild as his rages.

    Even when he took her maidenhood, their love had more of duty to it than of passion.
    We made Robb that night, though; we made a king together. And after the war, at Winterfell, I had love enough for any woman, once I found the good sweet heart beneath Ned’s solemn face."

    There is no reason Edmure should not find the same, with his Roslin."

    All of these quotes are from Catelyn Starks point is view in the books, you really should read them before you concoct bullshit theories like this.

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