Why Dorne Failed in the Game of Thrones TV series (Part 1/2)

Can I get a TLDR? Want to learn about it but don't have a spare 4 hours

dude, this has a lot of information and its really well researched but you really need to make a script or something you could easily shave off 3/4 of the time here if you were'nt repeating every point 5 times

I must commend on the matter this is put together and i do agree with the dissertation. The book is indeed better towards many major and subplots. But does this mean the series have become bad or aven unwatchable?
I dont believe so. But as you pointed out it has become in most instances a visual bliss instead of the logical web of intrigue strategy and tactics.
However These videos forget one thing and it is the same thing as on Westeros.org: being able to seperate yourself from the books when watching the series. Assumptions and presumptions about the story will always have a negative effect on a viewing when they are not met.
When watching only the show there is no sign that stannis can actually win. There are fewer men no food and a long walk. I agree that the rush in the story is laughable but i wasn't surprised. The guerilla tactics of Ramsey were believable to me.
Dorne however is just a trainwreck without any logical progression whatsoever. Who sent the warning to the Lannisters? All players seem to be shocked. The problem with this in the future story is that it influences all of S6-7. A story on quicksand.
My opinion is that until S4 it was logical. In S5 the north starts forgetting and Dorne pulled the story down. S6-7 is only visually strong but no logical progression whatsoever.
The two biggest battles in the series S6e9 and s7e4 do not follow ancient nor medieval battle tactics and even I as an amateur via history channel and BBC documentaries can see it. eg Pincer move with infantry instead of cavalry. Initial cav charge without infantry engaged and in front of and in reach of spears and archers. Based on the logical progression of the first 4 seasons: a character does something stupid = he dies. now Jon survives a whole salvo of arrows and as a lone infrantry guy survives a cav charge. S07e04 The dothraki do a cav charge but are in no distinctive formation (eg wedge or cantabrian for horse archers) there is no attempt to flank but they do charge in a spear formation head on. This is suicide for any Cavalry.
S7E6-7 is a pure disaster on all fronts: nothing adds up.
What I want to say is that the points in all videos are correct but to truly weigh a tv series or film is only looking at the series or film. Than you only take the facts shown and ask yourself is it good and is it logical. Stannis was bad but logical. Dorne was bad and illogical. Jon's death good enough and holds up to some extent even when it is too late because the wildlings are through (time for new leadership). Jamie staying with Cersei: good and logical because Jamie doesnt know anything bad Cersei has done. UNTIL S6E10 than he should have killed Cersei. As he has told 3 times between S1-4 he killed Arys because he killed people in the throneroom with wildfire and was treatening to do the same in KL. Cersei just blew up everyone: kill her or leave was the only thing he could do. But they didnt have Kevan anymore to show as general so DD had to find something to keep him there but it doesnt add up.
In short The series have become at more and more points a disasterand could have been a lot better. But still I think that overall the series is able to stand with the greats of at least this generation.

Sorry for the rant have a nice day

Ok …Damn I knew it was bad but I had know idea I'm reading the book now I'm still upset by this.

you repeat yourself too much, could easily cut 40 minutes out of your rants…

I do enjoy both the books and the t.v. show…..(as separate storys only) but do have to agree….this is a great explanation about why dorne failed….the actors COULD have been great and were great choices…just poorly used

if the people "behind the curtain" make these shows to have us invested in unimportant things more than what happens in the real world, I´d say they succeeded…

Let's just take a second to imagine Cranston as Randyl Tarly.

You make valid points but you repeat the same things over & over.
I stopped counting how many times you said "because they like Varma"

You could have summarized this in 20minutes. Same goes for the other videos.

Words that come to mind about Dorne: Desert. Pepper. Scorpions. Unbowed Unbent Unbroken. Venom. Sand.

While I think you're being a little too harsh on them sometimes, I can't really fault you for it because they really did fuck up the show. At this point I watch the show with my brain turned off because that's the only way I can actually enjoy it. But when people praise the show for being smart and amazingly written I flinch. I can only praise it for it's effects and sets and costumes now. I don't enjoy the character scenes. The only thing in season 7 that didn't feel like horrible fanfiction to me was episode 4 for the battle between Dany and Jaime. It reminded me of what used to make the show great. Then episode 5 came along and no one of importance had died. Fuck

40 minutes! Now after season 7 it has to be over an hour, so basically they wasted a little over an 1 episodes worth of time. That's a whole episode that could have fleshed the Arya storyine from S5.

I just wanted to say: Its The Shining, not The Shinning.

"Dorne" is probably why Stannis is so called dead. Not enough time or cash for him to rape the Boltons

What is the retention rate on your videos

I watched the show before the books, and I got the impression that Dorne was like a bastard step-child, there but never mentioned.

I knew the way they handled Dorne was bad, but this is …well, far worse than I thought. Well beyond the pail.

I'm seriously considering jotting down everything you said in this video. Then I will make a video presenting your information in a clear concise manner without repeating myself over and over and over and over and over and over

My issue with Dorne in S7 was that why did none of the other sand snakes ever come to Ellaria and the others rescue, and you pretty much explain it so well. That after they killed off Indira Varma in the show, there was no point revisiting that area. BTW I love your exasperation towards D&D, it's like you almost can't believe how someone can be so stupid.

I just discoverd your channel, and love your analysis. I disliked what D&D have done since season 5. Now, I despise them even more for ruining brilliant book plotlines and characters. THANK YOU!

To be perfectly fair to D & D, I do approve of some changes to showcase the actors by changing up elements of the books. Tywin in the books wasn't such a commanding presence in the books, but Charles Dance nailed, he was the undisputed ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, where as in the book, is was kind of Joffrey. Rory McCann was really good as the Hound, and rather then being a minor character in the books, his role in the show was expanded. Bronn was also a minor character, practically "off-screen" now in the books, but Jerome Flynn did a great job with the character and expanded it. These I think are positive changes, main because it doesn't break the logic of the show. Making Twyin more awesome didn't detract from the strength of the writing.

Am I supposed to root for Ellaria whose just acting like total bitch? "Oh, my husband died in a duel, I must now murder several people included children! Join me porn parody sand snakes!" Poor Alexander Siddig to have to be associated with this TERRIBLE sex fantasy.

I'll tell you this right now, the Dorne subplot went South from the very beginning which started in Season 4. Oberyns character was done poorly and Ellaria was completely worthless. I have a friend who is a casual viewer and his nickname for Oberyn was SIr Fagsalot. Granted he isn't the most enlightened fellow but Oberyn wasn't a fan favorite, at least his character went somewhere but that's the best you can say.

Look I think Indira is a good actress. I thought it was a travesty that they brought her in for season 4 and gave her almost nothing to do. Still her character was just awful in season 5 even worse than Season 4 when she almost said nothing. The Sand Snakes are the Charlies Angels of Westeros without any of their good points, completely one dimensional characters. They kill their own kin without any remorse or emotion.

They should have found a way to write it out of the show in the war somehow all though they did have to find a way to deal with Myrcellas fate.

I just dont know how to reconcile this information with how successful the pilot actually was. For 4 seasons they managed to perfectly adapt the series with such loyalty and conviction. That part about themes breaks my heart.

Why Tyene? She has the best tits of the bunch. That's my guess.

Although I agree with much of what you're saying, it's just a tv show. Why are you treating this like the Flint water crisis?

I watched this whole video!

Doesn't it feel like D&D rushed the whole show? By doing all these last minute changes every season because of a good actor, their just fucking up the whole story. And why don't they make it easier for themselves and the team by using already exciting material for their plots?! Why not use the material (the books) to try and simplify and enhance the characters? These guys have no clue what their doing. Season 7 is soo much bullshit and I thought that it couldn't get worse after Dorne but… In my opinion this is just mean. Mean to us watchers, mean to us readers, mean to the production team who always have less time than they need and mean to all the actors trying to do their job and their the one's who pay for D&D's mistakes. I think GRRM regrets this project with D&D.

Interesting and as long suspected, but dude, there was zero reason for this to take 2 hours and then another video of 2 hours.

Ahhh this explains why they killed them off like that…

Hey there! Gemma from Secrets of the Citadel sent me over!

there mostly all dead now
so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I get it now it make so much sense

Well, in the future maybe someone else will remake this series, call it A Song of Ice and Fire, to differentiate it from Game of Thrones, and iron out this major problems with it, predominately Dorne in this case, it would also be wiser to wait for The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring to be published…whenever that will be.

I love Arianne martell for she is intelligent calculating and methodical she makes plans. Tv's Dorne is a cartoonish potrayal of the real dorne.

They should have introduced Ariane Martell I think fans would have responded better to her than the Sand Snakes. Also they should have introduced Dany to the Martells much sooner, they have a shared loss! Generally the show would be better if the could convey the feeling of history and time in Weateros. Obviously you get those nuances from the books but the casual viewer is only getting a very diluted take on the big picture. And that's only if they are paying attention! I know people who have watched every season but don't know names? Ugh sorry I'm rambling😬

D & D are both Chad Summerchild

Well said.

I don't how people can put so much blame on D&D. They signed on to adapt Martin's story. Not to write it for him. I doubt it was ever their intention to write glorified fan fiction which is what the show is now. They definitely have limitations as writers but they probably figured Martin would be finished or near finished with his story at this point… As it is they're having to write significant parts of the story because there is nothing to adapt from.

I wonder how far d&d would have gotten with the show if they weren't white men. Had they been any kind of brown or a woman they would not have gotten a second chance after fucking up the pilot. Now that I see just how pompous they are I'm super not feeling their little show about the alternative reality of if the south won the civil war 😡 who tf thinks of shit like that anyway?! Racist mf's 😒

Wowwww 😳 I can not believe this show fucked up this bad over a bitch 😒 The Dorn storyline would have been amazing if it were done with the Dornish master plan. It would have been better not showing up at all given what tf they turned it into 😡 The ramifications of the shit representation they gave have still impacted the show! And always will! Seeing the sand snakes die felt like a cop out to a shit storyline and that was before I knew what this video told 😡😤😤😤

I love your videos and agree with practically all your points. One critique maybe you can try to not repeat things as often as you do. You can spend a good 20 minutes repeating the same thing over and over and over and then you go back to it later and repeat it over and over and over again. This video could probably be about 45 minutes long if you just said your points and moved on to another point. Once in awhile it can be effective to repeat something for emphasis but you just do it too much and it makes your videos far a longer than they must be. And for the record I actually enjoy long videos but I like long videos with dense material, not repetition. This is just a friendly critique. I ain't hatin.

Fascinating analysis. I also watched your B.O.B. video. Keep up the great work. Look forward to your analysis og season 7.

You called the ellaria-tyene mother-daughter thing. Holy shit dude. Good job

GRR quick marched it out of there after season 3, or even before lol , because he was going to appear in the red wedding as an extra but pulled out due to either writing W.O.W or another engagement , he wrote that episode though. Now it seems he got out at the right time , but i must say its bad that discussions didnt happen with Martin about over taking the book , he was wildly optimistic about getting W.O.W out before 5 years had passed

If you are talking about Kingdom of Heaven from Scot …. then i would say the research went mainly into the muslim side, there is a lot more ahistoricity on the christian side. even if we just talk about the looks. Not to mention the characters.

before i start to watch this i just wanna say – Avenge Oberyn by killing his brother and nephew? Alright…

as a brazilian woman, their definition of brazil creeps me out a bit……….

That Brazil comment… Jesus, D.B Weiss seems like a real fucking perv. He looks like one too…

I wish Rome didn't get cancelled. It had some of the same problems as GoT but I think it was a lot better for even characters. I don't think I'm the only one that flipped completely during the last episode and cheered for Marc Antony.

Jeez…this makes me so fucking angry. I thought i was being picky when I noted all the differences between the books and the show; thats not to say that thats what i think you're doing. But everything you point out about them shitting all over the books and there reasons for doin it pisses me the fuck off. Thank you for opening my eyes Ser. Not only is it insulting to the characters, but saying "we wanted this to happen because actor X is good at showing emotion 7" is insulting to the actor; assuming that the actor in question is only at their best when performing a certain way. Fuck.I always know books will be better, but fuck me….