Game of Thrones S8 Panel: Fan Expo w/Because Geek

Had a great time presenting and talking about Game of Thrones season 7 and the future season 8 at Fan Expo with Because Geek! Special October videos are coming soon!

Ok, let's hope I can keep this from wandering off.

Theory

There was once an empire or water people. I'm guessing with some relation to grey king myths. They found/created some form of water dragon. All the oily black stone monuments are the result of water and fire magic. For some reason they are no longer around. I don't want to reuse but for lack of a better option for now I'll just say it was the white walkers. The messed with nature and caused a long period of darkness that allowed them to go forth and made life hard for everything else. (Possible alternate, the children did it. They arrived in either the east or the west and cleared them both. The world was theirs.)

Nature was returned and the children spread out over east and west. Some time later humans also arrived. (Not sure about giants. They might have just slept through it. Then again some tales say they fought with the white walkers so maybe they were just always around.) Humans landed in the east of Essos and moved around or arrived in a couple different spots. But the first empire was built in the east and they burned the forests. The humans pressed on and eventually all the children had escaped to westeros. I'm going to guess here that the children had raised the land so they could escape. They had planned to break it but there were still some of their people hiding. They waited too long or the first men just explored faster than they expected and they were followed. They broke the arm but it was too late. As they had before, humans pressed them. There wasn't anywhere else to go though. So they fought. And then they talked. They made a pact. And then a few trades happened and some of the blood of the children mixed with men. Maybe dragons kinda flew everywhere or maybe some events allowed a very strong worg to get close enough to a dragon. Or maybe a dragon was flying over and noticed the worg and was curious. This would lead to the founding of one or more dragon houses. Probably around old town but the stormlands as well.

One day the sky would darken and the world would again be covered in ice. The white walkers would spread out upon the world and kill every dragon. As well as every worg they could find. Either because they felt they were done or because the children and men managed to patch the damage done by the white walkers though not entirely fix because the seasons are still messed up, the white walkers returned to their homes. And life again resumed. A new empire rose in the east. Some small part of the house that could bond with dragons left. Perhaps before or maybe after the long night. But they began to search the world for dragons.

The descendents of those dragon clan(s) eventually came upon the 14 fires and found some dragon eggs. They settled there and with their dragons took rule over the the local families. Eventually they would build their freehold.

In the north of westeros the children would attempt to find a way to communicate with the people in the land of always winter. They would convince the 13th commander of the wall to be their bridge. He would take on the aspect of the ice people, but would be balanced by the magic of fire in the form on a dagger of dragonglass or frozen fire. It would take some time, but one day one from the land in the North would come. For a long time they would learn to speak with one another. Word would reach the clans far north and the Kingdoms under the king of the North, and they would not understand. Together they would erase the watch and drive off the 13th commander. But they would capture the creature of ice. They would imprison her beneath winterfell in the crypts and build a wall of ice that would forever keep the night commander from the south. And the king would make and enemy of every clan above the wall that he also trapped without giving them time to move south.

Perhaps the true people of the northern land sleep beneath the ice. But the night commander has never found them. He would however learn to share the ice portion of the magic that made him what he is. One day he would feel the power of fire grow strong in the south and would begin to plan for his revenge. (I don't know if he's aware his queen was taken. I think he'll reach winterfell and he'll stop. And then he'll let out a howl before his army attacks in the most vicious attack to that point.)

So. Thoughts?

I'm probably thinking to hard but there are a number of story elements and theories and such that don't make sense to me.

First, an easy one. So many people want Jaime to kill his sister. Maybe, but I think the foreshadowing has been fairly obvious from the beginning. The Lanisters have been associated with a song that reminds us of a huge sin. Tywin destroyed an entire family, by drowning them. Now her last ally is the drowned men, and Cersei has been reving the kingdoms to pay her debts and grab food. I'd put my money on the king of the iron born or drowned men.

Ice)
We saw them make the night king. But when Bran said they made the white walkers, the children actually evaded the question by making excuses. Did they literally make them, or did they do something that angered them? As we understand the time line, the children and first men did a lot of fighting. They eventually made the pact. At some point before that did they make ice monsters as a weapon, or did they do something during the time they were at war that resulted in the white walkers coming south? Maybe when they attacked the land bridge or the neck. Or maybe they stole something to use against humans. It's been heavily hinted that the grey waste in the east is very much like the North of westeros. When asked if they are connected Martin has said no. But was that the wrong question? Would a better question be, were they connected? By accident, did they strand and royally anger them somehow?

Is the night king a white walker? He certainly looks like ice is involved, but if he's the king of ice people, why would he need a dagger or frozen fire in his heart? Benjen needed one to keep that power of ice from consuming him. It seems to me that the ice king is the product of ice and fire magic. The word sacrifice keeps getting used. We saw the night king apply power to a baby, but we have never seen anything that says he's turning them into white walkers. We have a lot of assumptions and the wives of Crastor have told us theirs, but we only assume it because of the edit. For all we know he's an ice vampire and he drained the baby. Or the power went in but then returned to the night king because the baby didn't have the right DNA or he gifted the child with a protection from the cold and then gave him to his brothers and they all made snow castles. The night king attacked the old tree, the children, and bloodravin, but why? Was he trying to rescue Bran? Hoping to talk to him before the was completely poisoned by the children? Everything seems really evil, but how much can we trust? The children were using dragonglass weapons when the first men arrived. How old could the war between the white walkers and the children be. When Bran asked if they made the white walkers she evaded to explain something. Was she actually trying to explain that when the first men arrived they killed too many trees, and the children had lost so many of their number, that they didn't have the power to confront them alone. And with so many more lost since the Andols arrived they have no idea how to win this time.

Fire)
This is probably the really scary bit. The Lord of light is requiring a lot of blood for the fire. This doesn't sound like a group of priests or a god that is good. They preach about a prophecy that requires some one to run a burning sword through the heart of the person he or she loves more than anything else. What would be the point of saving the world at that point? A hobbit needs to sacrifice and evil ring to a volcano. I can understand why some people are looking past that. Some people are dead set on Jaime because they think killing Cersei is ok because she's pretty evil. But what if it doesn't work? Maybe it was because she's evil and he doesn't love her that way any more. Maybe it's the lady of Tarth. But if that doesn't work maybe it's Jon. But what if he kills Dany and nothing happens? Maybe it was supposed to be Dany but she's dead now. Does a hero's sacrifice sound like killing the person you love most? Or does it bring to mind sacrificing one's self (Like taking a dagger or frozen fire to your heart)? Many red priests preach fire and blood. And they seem to be using tricks to make themselves look more powerful. However, we also have Thoros. Didn't believe, couldn't do much, was sent away. One day he's given a task that for the first time might actually be a little bit noble for once. He's lending his arm to bringing some one harming innocent people to justice. And when his friend dies, he believes. And he can suddenly do something the other priests can't. The hound has spent most of his life resigned to the idea there is nothing noble in the world. It's all mean people and killing people. But then he meets a female with more knightly nobility than every knight he's ever known combined, and she kicks his ass. He spends time putting up a sept and starts to believe some one can actually change, can be a thoughtless killer and then set aside violence. Suddenly the fire is shouting messages at him.

I know there will never be a way to prove that there is a god and he's actually picky about who gets the power to do what. There must be a way to explain it in a mundane way. At the very least I might be tempted to say there might be more than one church of the red god. Some one or a group of some ones may be working from the element of fire, but from a group that might not be about evil prophesies that want all the men in westeros that might think they can be a hero to grab the nearest sword and kill their wife.

And lastly dragons. I've read a number of good idea about the genetic connection to dragons. The interesting idea is that the dragon prince may have made similar connections, and it led him to wonder if what makes it possible to bond with a dragon is similar enough to what makes it possible to slip into the mind of an animal. Jon having that moment with Drogon seems to be the proof that he was right. But that only makes me wonder if it has always been that way. Some aspect of first men genes, or the result of mixing with the children. We have dragonsteel mentioned in history. The black stone and dragon bones around before the valerians. For some reason there is no mention of them, like some one selected very instance of the word dragon and hit delete. Taking the Azor Ahi prophasy from the swords are penises angle, it seems as if the big secret was that some one figured out dragons and found a baby that could bond. And then tried to destroy all mention of it so that no one else would know and abuse the power. OR. Maybe the Daynes figured out how to hatch and tame dragons and they were attacking the kingdoms. The white walkers could sense the dragons were being misused and they marched south to kill them all. They didn't talk to humans because the couldn't. But they ran down every dragon, an maybe everyone they could find that had the ability to bond with dragons. Eventually leaving on their own or being chased away.

Maybe the children used a human, imbued him with the power of ice and fire, so that he could use that power for some purpose. Maybe it was so they could communicate with the white walkers and it was the only way. Maybe the woman the 13th night commander encountered had responded to him trying to reach out and was curious. The nights watch might have known what was happening and tried to defend the two of them as they learned to talk to one another. But the northern clans and the northern kingdoms refused to listen and they killed everyone in the nights watch assuming they were under control and they ran off or tried to kill the night king and the white walker. They destroyed the records so no one would know. And the bit and pieces or the legend like sacrifices were added to scare kids into good behaviour.

One thing I don't get is the sacrifices. Did all the real white walker leave a long time ago? The night king has to make new friends with his power maybe? They aren't true white walkers, but at least it's some one he can talk to. Is it a coincidence they broke the wall the same season the dragons returned? Has the night king been gathering his forces since the Targerians arrived? Is that when they woke? If they killed the dragons and Dany would he turn around and go home?

GRRM'S final twist of the story of the song of ice and fire, is that there is no valonquar. If the magi's prophecy of Dany is wrong, the prophecy of the valonquar is also wrong. The show did not even mention the valonquar.

Can you make a video about the young Griff storyline

That's great y'all's was in Canada!!! Awesome!! Sadly, Im way over in the prairies. Would have been hella fun to see geek/rawrist panel.
Someone asked about the hound fathering a child. He mentioned Rome series which is another hbo i huge fan of. My question, is hound a virgin?? In horror movie rules, the virgin lives. Which through deductive math, leaves Arya, bran, and the hound??

I think Beric and Tormund will have lived through the wall collapsing and we'll start the episode with them walking just taking in the wreckage in the rubble and all the death when they come upon Gendry's body. Then at the very end of the episode we'll see that Beric gave his life to bring Gendry back to life.

love the both of yall ……

My prediction: Aegon & Jon Connington are going to show up with the gold company, break the contract with the Queen, and destroy her forces. In the three headed dragon fashion, Dany will have two husbands like Aegon had his two sisterwives. Second prediction: all those kings of winter will be raised and conveniently they all have iron swords…hindsight…that was a poor tradition for northern houses especially! So many buried northern men are going to bolster the army of the dead…

If writes drop when their masters die, why of Basic still moving?

No video? 😐

No video .I can't see !!!

No video .I can't see !!!

whah, great panel. ^-^
I often feel GRRM takes a stab to old feudal society's when it comes to "natural" and "man created" rules of bloodlines.
Like with the bastard of a king, who is in all natural and genetic aspects of the same blood as their parents but is only defined differently because of "man made" rules when it comes to succession, surname, status etc.
Just because the "bastards" parents were not married, wich is also considered a "man made" rule, they have a somewhat degenerative status into their soceity.
The topic was even subtley highlighted with the conversation between Missandei, Jonn and Davos in the show, where Missandei explained that in her culture, they don't have the concept of marriage and therefor don't have a concept of a "bastard" in their soceity. For Davos to call that "enlightening" gives indication of a modern state of mind for him.

The Dance of the Dragons, the big civil war is maybe the best example of the story when it comes to people fighting over power because of man made rules. That a daughter has "lesser" status in that "man made" world, but in GRRM's style, slightly twisted in details and the same goes for the Blackfyre rebellions….. were royal descendants from the same bloodline, who just were categorised differently into the "man made set of rules" rebelled.

I personally love the theory for Cersei and Jaime to be secret Targaryan "bastards"
as it would throw everything in the story upside down. All the concepts people fight for suddenly would mean really nothing anymore, because in reality…. it really wouldnt matter. The only thing it would matter for is the "set of man made rules"
and those rules are kind of retarded anyway.
Cersei is the queen, the woman in power, and even if she is a secret targaryan it has so much hilarious complications. Her being the queen just blows away the real "man made rules" that people fought wars over in the past and it would just fit GRRM's storytelling.
In extend to her being a "secret targaryan" theory, i also like the valonqar and azor ahai prophecies to fit in this setting. It would combine 3 huge theory's together and with cersei being made pregnant in the show….. D&D might want to show us that the Azor Ahai prophecy, might not be exclusive for Jonn and Dany alone. To give the fans more things to speculate and theorise on and in hindsight…. i think they made a great choice by doing so.
Everyone was talking about Jonn and Dany and azor ahai…… but Jaime and Cersei and azor ahai is something to consider now aswell.
Even if both kids would be born, they would naturally be of Targaryan Descent.
😉

When Rhaeneyra and Visenya link up for a panel

I'm still convinced that Rhaego is ALIVE. Mirri Maz Duur lied, she lied, she lied. MMD played on Dany's words when she asked MMD, "When will HE return as HE was?" Just like their whole discussion about saving Drogo's "life". MMD knew what Dany wanted and she clearly did save Drogo's "life". Just MMD's version of "life." Same as the "he" referred in the question. The "he" Dany is clearly referring to is Drogo. But the answer MMD gave Dany was a prophecy of the return of Rhaego. Now with Melisandre taking off to Volantis makes me believe she will be the one to bring him back into the story. The biggest R'hllor temple is located there with their very own army, The Fiery Hand. What would a temple need with their own army? What or WHO are they protecting? What have they been trained for? I used to think Rhaego had been taken to Asshai to be protected by the R'hllor people there. I was really hoping that they would have put a dragon egg in his crib. He could have come riding back into the story on his very own dragon. Plus it would have been the reason for Bran's vision while falling, "dragonS stirring in Asshai". But since Mel's going to Volantis I don't believe they could have a dragon there without people knowing it. (Such a bummer.) Rhaego having his own army is still kind of cool. Also would possibly be foreshadowed by Jojen's statement to Bran when they were captives at Crasters. Jojen said something about, "you will know when it's the end." And he held up his hand and it was on fire. Back then I thought it was meaning how Jojen died by that little fireball from the COTF. In all reality he didn't die from that fireball. He died when Meera slit his throat. So maybe Jojen was referring to THE END of the big battle.

I think Cersei is going to ride in with her troops with the Mountain by her side up North to meet Dany and Jon's troops in Winterfell. She used to wear Jaime's armor and pretend like she was him when she was younger. Plus she told Sansa back during the Blackwater battle that she would rather be out with the men than cooped up with the scared hens. Not that I think she is going to stay for the battle. I think she is going to go there to collect what Tyrion promised her back at the dragon pit.. himself. I think once she shows up he will feel that she is holding up her end of the bargain and turn himself over to her. Even though he knows he is basically singing himself over to be executed. "The self sacrifice of a good ruler" said a very wise man a few seasons back. Once Cersei has him I think she will also grab Sansa and take them back to KL. I think she will try to charge Sansa for the same crime Tyrion was found guilty of, the death of Joffrey. It wouldn't surprise me if she reinstates the Trial by Combat law because she feels the Mountain is unbeatable. I think the Hound and Arya will go to KL to try to save Sansa. Which very well might lead to Cleganbowl! We all know that the Hound would fight for his little bird. 😍 I REALLY wish Arya could use the Viper's face and start screaming…"You raped her, you killed her, you murdered her children!" Just as she jumps in and saves the Hound from a death blow by the Mountain. (Repaying the Hound for leaving him to die.) The Hound giving the final death blow to the Mountain. (Sadly the Vioer's face is probably a little mushy to use. Man I would love to hear that one more time.) After the Mountain dies, Cersei will probably try to hold up in the throne room and Jaime will be sent to try to talk some sense into her. We all know that's no use so maybe he will just get fed up and choke the living life out of her. That Gold hand is going to come in handy as a barrier against those spikes she wears around her neck. 😍😍😍 A girl can dream! 😍😍😍

If I cosplayed as Darth Vader would you cosplay as my apprentice Darth Rawrist?

danys heart, aka her baby dragon, got pierced in the heart. Dany is definitely dying in child birth.

Hi Rawist … you never did an Episode 7 review, btw ! Just sayin'

Hey, there is homosexual sex on the show, why not incest? Why judge?

Am I the only one who has no picture, and only sound?

You guys are so good solo, but together…Wow, that was fun! I hope you'll continue this sister act at the Con in May in Dallas. It would be fun to see you all in person. BTW, since Jaime said he wanted to die in the arms of the woman he loves, I think he'll die with Brienne. He doesn't love Cersei any more. If so, I think Arya will kill Cersei and take her face to send the Lannister army and Golden Company to fight the Others under Jon.

Oh man, I'm so sad I missed this!!! Please do a Toronto fan meet-up next year! 😀

I think John and Deany's baby's name is going to be Eddard Targaryen.

To hottest women on youtube

My two fave GOT youtubers

Attended this panel! Only knew Val was going to Fan Expo, but you showing up was an awesome surprise! Dunno if you remember, but I was the guy wearing a white mustache that said hey to you on the show floor on Saturday lol. Keep up the great work!

The two best ladies of YouTube together again!!

Instant like

Thank God Miguel Sapochnik will be back!

You CAN warg the dead
#CrunchyPeanutButter
#LittlefingerForKing
#ShowDawnWasGreat
#LadyDustinSentTheCatspaw

Happy Oktoberfest!!!!!

Oh my gosh, I had to immediately click! Two of my faves.

Yeah!